Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that this topic keeps on coming up, but I have a few differnt questions.

I am looking for a large lizard. One that could suit my lifestyle. I have owned lizards before and I actually really wanted an Iguana... but the size factor is too much. I really wanted a vegetarian lizard, because I am too a vegetarian. I was really drawn by the unique life style of this skink and its actually appearence. It is stunningly beautiful.

My questions are this... I have been doing research on them, but I have one about housing. Is a 55 gallon aquarium too small for a single adult? I got the feeling that it was. If it is, then I will probally need to build a cage for it. Which is fine, trying to give the best of what captive life can give.

If I do indeed find a skink, would it be tramatic to let it live alone? I say this because... I checked out the price of a long term captive, adult MTS(same as PTS, I assume) and it was $500. This was offered by East Bay Vivarium. I love animals, but I dont think I could afford that, especially two. I try to say that price isnt a factor, but wow. Are they usually all that much? This skink wasnt even captive bred...

I would eventually love to breed them and continue the species genetic diversity, but for now I could most likely settle on one.

And one other thing. A local reptile store in my area has one or two of them. It is a really bad store, and one I would like to see shut down. I made the mistake of getting some Amazon Tree Boas from them, and now all my snakes have mites. Anyway, I could probally get one of thier skinks for a lower price and give it a better home than the store would. I know that the vet bills might exceed the price of the $500 skink... but I wouldnt take it if it was in that bad of shape. Also, dont think that all I think about is money and that money really matters... it really never does. I will probally save up in the long run to get a nice healthy skink.

If anyone has pictures of thier skinks and cages that would be really cool.

Thanks alot in advance.
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Starkey
Mystic Eye

n/p
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Edward
Carpe diem

ED, thanks for saving everyone from one of my lectures
You said it for me in one sentance.

Shop around, I've seen CB babies for $300. It sounds like a lot, especially for a pair, but this is something you'll have for a very long time.
I'm not sure about the cage size, I've been thinking about them myself and decided I probably don't have room.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

Yeah, I blame you. A few months ago I was asking what to do with a 4' High by 2 by 1 cage, since I live in a silly state that won't allow ahaetulla or other attractive "rear-fang" colubrids. You suggested a PTS. I'm sending my credit card bills your way, as not only did I fall hard for these guys, but I very quickly realized that I would need a larger cage. I now have a pair of corucia zebrata, and a 4 X 4 X 2 cage. The original cage still sits empty, occupying space, too attractive to give away, unusable for anything in my collection. Not only did this result in significant financial duress, but it pre-empted a longer term plan to get a breeding partner for my Papuan python, thus possibly having even greater eventual financial consequences. (Yeah right...like I'd be the one to breed papuans.) By the way, I love them, and I fervently suggest that you "find" room for them. Fascinating little buggers.
-SWA

He he... sorry... I think... Well, sorry that cage was too small for a pair! You just need to get something else to go in it.
I often suggest to other people animals I really want but can't get for some reason. Wish fufillment.
I really want to get a new lizard soon, but I can't decide between PTS and Leachies. They're the same price and everything.
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Peter: It's OK, I'll handle it. I read a book about something like this.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't NOTHING?

55 gallon is small. You'll want to build something.

As for whether or not they should be housed singly or in pairs:

Fact: They usually live in groups in the wild. On occasion a single individual will be found alone.

Fact: They do well in captivity when housed in groups. 1 male with 1 or 2 females seems to work best.

There seem to be (in my limited experience) 2 schools of thought in this forum. One is that it is imperative to house them in groups and to do otherwise is a form of cruelty.

The other school (which I count myself in) believes that while community housing is optimal, there is no evidence that single housing is detrimental.

So *I* would say that if you can only get one right now, get just one. Others would disagree with me.

I also support your desire to purchase captive bred, or long term captives if it can be proven. I feel that buying wild caught individuals contributes to the difficulties that the wild populations face and encourages more collecting.

As for the East Bay Vivarium: $500 is steep. Shop around some more and you can probably find one for less. Be patient. You've wanted this for awhile, you can afford to wait some more. You will eventually find exactly what you want at a price that is reasonable. And shopping around will give you the time you need to build a large cage and get all your temps and humidities fine-tuned.

Good luck!

-Z

The Price of $500 will no doubt be the going rate soon, with the import ban, I see prices already on the rise.

Best regards,
Jean

Hmmm. I don't want to be rude to Brian, but so far I've seen nothing on CITES or TRAFFIC or USFW that says there's a ban. Has someone other than Brian seen/heard of this ban, or are we just taking his word for it?

Again, no offense to Brian. But I haven't been here long enough to just take the word of someone who is a stranger to me.

-Z

Z,

I have heard this from several dealers and seen an ad in the Kingsnake classifieds to that effect. Besides, Brian wouldn't post information like this in an open forum if it wasn't true or had at least some validity to it. Otherwise, it would be major embarrassment time.

Brian has been very helpful and kind to many on this forum. A person who acts in this manner would not be one to mislead or decieve. In short, I trust him. Am I the only one?

Best regards,
Jean

I don't doubt that Brian would not intentionally post misleading information. But what if his source was mistaken?

As for the dealers, it is to their advantage to whip folks into a buying frenzy by making their product appear to be more scarce than it is. There were rumors last year that Corucia were being moved to App. I and it didn't happen. These could be rumors again. And the fact that I've seen no official mention of it makes me wary.

I by no means am implying that Brian is lying. I am saying that I'd like to see an official source (or know more about how Brian came by the info) before I'll believe what currently appear to be rumors.

-Z

Z,

Go to one of the search engines, (I used Google) and type: export ban on Corucia. click on Turtle Times Forums-N.Y. Times 7/16/03. See the posts by ChADMANN on the Solomon Islands "For example, the banning of export of Corucia zebrata from the Solomon Islands has sealed the fate of the remaining wild populations. The animals are now worth nothing to the people except as food. The forests in which they dwell are still being cleared but the lizards are no longer being collected to sell into the export trade. Their deaths are guaranteed in the food markets. Among herpers who keep this charming species there are a few breeders who will insure that this species does not become extinct. At least in captivity they will still exist, however wild populations are doomed unless there is a sudden change. At least the horrendous pet trade got a few living animals into the hands of keepers who cherish them and breed them."

This also backs Brian in that the Solomon ecosystem and it's endemic Corucia are doomed. James seemed to be of the opinion that the wild populations were safe and the ecosystem was secure.

Cherish the Corucia that you have because for WC's, we've reached the end of the line.

Best regards,
Jean

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Although it can be said we should have more faith in each other, it doesn't matter who was right or wrong. The important thing is that the truth can now be accepted and we can work together to see this new influx of Corucia get into proper care. and to work together to save this species. It is up to us now-> for the captive Corucia solely represent the species prospects for survival.

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC P.S. .....It would be improper of me to not to say...Thanks Jean.

I tried yesterday and again today to look at the article you're quoting. I can't get it to load. In fact, I can't even get turtletimes.com to load. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Anyway, I'll just go by what you've reproduced. I have 2 questions about it, and you'll have to pardon my ignorance for the 1st question.

1- Who is Chad Mann?

2- I notice that his article was posted in July. If there was a ban on exportation from the Solomon's in July, how did we get a shipment of Corucia last month with CITES documentation?

-Z

And it's funny but I was also wondering who that individual is and how authoritative his statements may be. Yeah, I know, I'm evil for questioning that. :-|
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Edward
Carpe diem

Remember this is a climbing arboreal species. Think Height and climbing access. A hardware cloth side is best because the climbing area is greatly increased-not to mention the fresh air circulation factor.

Best Regards,
Jean

You don't worry about damaged toes with hardware cloth?
Seems it would be easy to get a toe stuck during a fall and torn off or broken.

-Z

Z,

With respect, is your thinking normally only black/white? There are often more than 2 choices in this world.

In regards to hardware cloth, which I Do use by the way, (Although there are other alternatives than a glass 'fish bowl'-with no climbing access to the sides.) In 7 years, I have yet to experience a toe injury. Many Corucia keepers use A wooden enclosure with hardware cloth. Coburn's book has illustrations as such. Many Iguana books such as the one by Bill Love has illustrations of Hardware cloth enclosures. Both of these gentleman have had extensive experience with lizards. Just because you personally haven't tried a method doesn't mean it should be summarily dismissed.

There are plexiglass enclosures available with the appropriate size for Corucia. A good Design has been posted by Jess.
Aquariums are plain too small.

Please don't take this personally but I hope you reconsider and get your Corucia out of the 'fish bowl' and into a larger, more appropriate style Corucia enclosure of some type. Keep the non-arboreal species in the tank.

Best Regards,
Jean

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/.

Jean,

Although Z's post seems to point in that direction, I can't believe someone as intelligent as her would sanction keeping Corucia in a small, restrictive environment as a fish tank.

This pathway may be off-track. What are your thoughts Z?

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC

Thanks for the vote of confidence Brian!

You are absolutely right. I don't sanction keeping Corucia in aquariums.

I think Jean accidently mis-read something. It happens.

-Z

Z,

That being the case, You have my apologies. I'm glad the information I posted was of use to you.

Best regards,
Jean

I think you didn't read my initial response to the individual asking about keeping Corucia in a 55 gallon tank. I pointed out that that was far too small and something would need to be constructed.

My Corucia do not live in a fish tank. They live in a 4' x 3' x 2' enclosure. This is a bit small for 2 (the second one is a very new addition), and I have plans to build a larger one eventually.

So, now that that little misunderstanding is cleared up (I hope!), we can move on to the next one....

I did not tell you not to use hardware cloth. I did not tell anyone else not to use hardware cloth. I didn't even say that hardware cloth *would* damage toes. I said that it seemed to me like there *could* be a risk of that and how you felt about it. I asked for your opinion. Either I need to not do that again, or you need to lighten up.

Y'know, I don't just pull these questions out of my ass. I've seen Iguana toes and monitor toes broken and torn by hardware cloth. Corucia are smaller and not as flighty so the risk may not be as great for them, which could be why it's not discouraged in the books. But I thought I would ask.

-Z

Z,

I guess I deserved that one. Your concerns are worthy of attention but with a properly constructed enclosure and the non-hyper and non-flighty aspect of Corucia (As you mentioned) The risk is virtually non-existent.

My sincere hope that our 'wires' never get crossed again. LOL

Best regards,
Jean

I've made arboreal cages for my cresteds out of long aquariums that I put on their end with sliding doors. I thought about using a 150 gallon aquarium I've got sitting in my garage for my corucia and putting it on its end but I didn't have the cover problem worked out. So instead I've used a wooden iguana cage. But you COULD use an aquarium if it was large enough as it would hold the humidity well, it just would either need to be a large and tall one or you could put one on end and either have a sliding top which would then be on its side or build your own cover for it. This could be considerably less work than building something, it seems to me, but then I'm not good at building and some people are. I got a real deal on this 150 gallon when an aquariium store shut down. Sometimes you can get stuff like that through the classifieds etc. and it's cheaper than buying all of the glass plus the other supplies and labor.

-Lucy

You should go back to the awful petshop and check the MTS they are selling there.Sometimes we can find pets that are still healthy in bad petshops!If the MTS is kept warm and fed with greens or POTHOS plants it has a chance to be healthy and to thrive!
I bought my MTS in a very bad petshop and he is very healthy!BUT where i live the weather is always warm and humid even inside that very bad petshop!All i needed to do was de-worm it!

Perhaps you will be the last chance that MTS has to survive!

About buying a pair i think you could do it later on.Buy only one now, make it healthy and acclimated to your house and after you can find it a male or a female!If you buy 2 right now and one is sick it will contaminate the other!

By the way, here is my MTS cage.You can see my baby's face on the POTHOS plant vase that is on the floor.He eats only POTHOS and fruits.He loves melons and papaya!He is geting fat and im very happy!

I say try, herpbreedingresearch.com, they have ca[tive bred pairs at $500.

Hi!

I'm new to Prehensile tailed skinks but I've been raising and breeding a variety of lizards for several years so I'll try to answer your question for you. Yes, a 55 gallon would be too small for a prehensile tailed skink. A vegetarian lizard that might be okay in that sized cage would be an ornate uromastyx. They are very docile and laid back and when they are grown they are really couch potatoes. They don't get as big as the skinks and they are terrestrial and the skinks are arboreal. If you want to get a prehensile tailed skink, there are some places I think you could still get a cheaper one than the one you referred to. I'd recommend Mitch at Diamond Reptile. If he still has some, they are recent imports but they have been treated for parasites and are in good condition. That's where I got my trio and he has a good reputation and provided good service to me. There have also been some captive bred babies on Kingsnake advertised recently for less than $500. As far as the petstore one goes, you could ask the store if you could get them checked out by a vet and if you have a vet that is knowledgeable about herps and the vet says it's okay, then you could rescue that animal or animals, just spend a regular vet fee plus a fecal check, which wouldn't be a huge amount, and get those animals out of the bad pet store. That would be my suggestion. They'd probably like to sell them. You could give them your check to hold just for the day that you have the vet appointment and make that agreement with the store manager or whatever. If they're unwilling to do that then you need to be suspicious that the animals may not be in good condition. Then it's up to you whether you want to risk a big vet bill to rescue them from the store or not. If they don't look too thin (look to see it their hip bones are sticking out) they may be okay but you should definitely get them checked when you buy them, wherever you get one from. ANY animal, even from a good breeder, can get parasites from feeder insects (not with a vegetarian like the skinks) or contaminated food or still from remaining importation problems. The stress of shipping multiple times for imported animals like the SI SKinks runs down their immune systems and any remaining parasites, even if they have been treated, could grow again and overtake their system, especially in a place like a pet store where they may be crowded and handled by lots of people. Hope that helps. -Lucy