Reptile & Amphibian Forums

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congrats.. so animal have Pastel,Ghost,Desert,Enchi in it ?

and what are " true ghost "

any info are welcome
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Reptiles since 1975
http://www.rolfreptiles.com
Rolf Mikkelsen
DENMARK

ups sorry saw the other post.. with the info.. on the breeding..
wild and crazy..
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Reptiles since 1975
http://www.rolfreptiles.com
Rolf Mikkelsen
DENMARK

Very nice snake...truelly amazing.
If I am understanding your breeding...you took a male and a female both with the "DESERT" gene and hatched babies...and everyone said they dont reproduce?
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

Fantastic. Congrats. Look forward to seeing it out of the egg !!!. People== This is not the same "Tiger" as the Desert X Enchi combo and I guess it's co-dominant if there's a super !!
-------Awesome Animal---------

Got ya....change the name...lol
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

change the name....

if you wanna come in here and start gloating, then not come back and answer questions, after naming something after an existing morph then so be it. but people wont take you seriously next time
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

If I am remembering correctly the tiger (reduced pattern) gene that is in this project is a good 10-12 years old. Course over the years a lot of people have used tiger for their dinkers so maybe I'm thinking of another one.
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Tosha

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

Tosha,
I rememer hearing a Tiger being a reduced pattern but with all the hype in Deserts and most of the general public...including me hearing the word Tiger...I automatacilly think DESERT...not a good time to introduce a new morph creation from a reduced pattern snake with out explaining the morph up front. IMO
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

Thanxxx, Tosha. I worked third shift last night & went to a first shift job after that. Don't have time for high school allegations but thank you for attempting to clarify. The Tigers are genetic banded animals with the Super demonstrating the pattern reduction as I believe there to be a difference between the two terms. This is the original female Jolliff Axanthic Tiger obtained in 1993.

The nicest pair I've seen to date, produced by Brian Barczyk

Black backs

Very nice animals Mike. Haven't heard much about your tiger project in a long time. Funny how people are giving you a hard time about the name, when this project has been around years before the other tiger project. Guess it shows how long some people have been around.

Scott Austin

Blue balls is an awesome name!!!

Guess I was unaware to be "official" you had to post on world of ball pythons dot net. Somebody forgot to hand me a book of rules. Thanxxx, the only time I can say I'm proud of my blue balls.

I saw the reduced patter Tiger named well before the Desert stuff was named. It seems this same argument was brought up about the Desert stuff back then.
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

Seriously, NOT AT ALL

look like genetic bandeds at most which could be from the het in them?
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1.0 firefly(pos het pied) 1.0 enchi 1.0 super reduced clown 0.1 bumblebee 0.1 mojave 0.1 butter pastel 0.1 spotnose 0.1 pewter 0.1 pastel 0.1 pied 0.1 het pied 0.1 vanilla 0.3 het clown 0.7 normals

Cause that's what I was just saying. They are genetic banded animals when bred together produce animals with pattern reduction. Somebody else coined the name for the trait. Several breeders have been calling them that for years. Myself for 15 yrs. The new "Tiger" being a Desert Enchi was just news to me as of today, out of the loop on that one, sorry. I could care less who gets the Tiger name as I was unaware of the competition (sarcasm) for the title. More weirdness to this whole triplet story, I guess.

yea genetic banded would have been less confusing for all if you said that at first. for past few years Tiger was referring to Enchi Desert combo. doesn't matter, that true ghost looks cool
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1.0 firefly(pos het pied) 1.0 enchi 1.0 super reduced clown 0.1 bumblebee 0.1 mojave 0.1 butter pastel 0.1 spotnose 0.1 pewter 0.1 pastel 0.1 pied 0.1 het pied 0.1 vanilla 0.3 het clown 0.7 normals

You can change the name if you buy it.

I have two more litters I'm waiting on to hatch. I will prob. change the name of the True Ghost to "blue balls" if no one has taken that one yet - then it would be official?!?! Pastels True ghosts to hairy blue balls & Super Pastel True Ghosts to Super Hairy Blue Balls as an homage to long hairs like myself, BHB, & NERD. That way, when I meet some of these Internet trolls, I can say "would you like to see my super hairy blue balls? Would you like to hold them & wish try we're yours?"....#@goofy know-it-alls

...HA....I Love it....this is the Mike I expect to see....actually funny...really....How you been man...long time......stay cool...stay crazy...and have fun playing with them BHBB.....breed them...they will come.....

....I gotta read more ..>>>>>>
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........JY

Thanxxx man, good to still be around. Hope to see ya around @ the up-n-coming shows.

Hell Yeah!!!! That is a great post!!! I would not expect anything other than. Can't wait to see the little critter out of the egg.

Hope to see ya at some of the shows.

: )

True Ghost being a dbl. homozygous hypomelanistic (aka Ghost) and an Axanthic together in the same snake. Tiger is the term used to distinguish my line of genetic banded animals. This line produces animals with banding AND pattern reduction when bred together = Supers. Often but not always, these animals seem to have a layer missing. If you look at the pattern of Bumble Bee, that dirty layer over & down the back is often missing in Super Tigers giving the animal a much cleaner look (similar to a desert but not). Not too sure if this is a marker for het. albinos or het. hypos (seems likely to be the explanation in hindsight) as it doesn't always happen but is most noticeable when the pastel trait is present as well. This is best demonstrated by the Pastel & Pastel (Super?) Tiger in the pic. below. I produced some Pastel Super Tigers this year that are even better with pattern reduction giving the sides a striped look. See the Ax. Super Tiger pix I'll be posting below.

Thanks.. your self and one word WOW.. love to it out of egg soon

Congrats
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Reptiles since 1975
http://www.rolfreptiles.com
Rolf Mikkelsen
DENMARK

Congrats!

"If you look at the pattern of Bumble Bee, that dirty layer over & down the back is often missing in Super Tigers giving the animal a much cleaner look (similar to a desert but not). Not too sure if this is a marker for het. albinos or het. hypos (seems likely to be the explanation in hindsight) as it doesn't always happen but is most noticeable when the pastel trait is present as well."

I've see the clean effect in het hypos. Hypo is almost as co-dominant like as pied IMHO. I haven't read the other thread yet but I'm thinking the hypo part can be explained by picking unknown het hypos because they are cleaner. Nice to know that the Jolliff true ghost can be made like the TSK true ghost. Has the VPI true ghost been made yet? Maybe someday we'll find two mutations linked by being on genes close together on the same chromosome such that making the double homozygous will be very difficult.
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Randy Remington
anyone@snakemorphs.com
www.SnakeMorphs.com
FaceBook

Absolutely amazing!!!

Brent
BRB Reptiles

Np

In your original post below you said

>>" Neither parent was a Pastel or was supposed to carry the Hypo gene as they were produced from animals I originally produced....very strange to have two existing mutations spontaneously reproduced in this litter but what a blessing!!
>>

Now you have produced a mutation with pastel? Your story is really weird IMO.... Never heard of a Super Tiger in ball pythons. What exactly is that?
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

I agree with the same name thing !!! but this is the co-dominant ,genetic banded "Tiger" for those who have'nt seen it before.

Are you saying their is no spider in that? This story gets more confusing by the minute.....
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

This animal is a Axanthic X Genetic Banded(Tiger) X Spider. The Tiger gene is what changed the Spiders pattern. These are not my animals but I have been watching this project. I'm just trying to help clear up some of the confusion.

>>This animal is a Axanthic X Genetic Banded(Tiger) X Spider. The Tiger gene is what changed the Spiders pattern. These are not my animals but I have been watching this project. I'm just trying to help clear up some of the confusion.

Posting a pic of a triple and calling it a single mutation doesn't clear up the confusion.... Just saying ...
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Also, we still haven't seen the "Super Tiger" which supposedly both parents were. I see normals in the original post so how could that be if the parents were "Supers"??? Sorry, but this story is a bunch of BS IMO....
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

.....we have trouble seeing what we have made after it has hatched...this snake is still in the egg....

just another thought...

it is cool....pics pics pics...we need tiger,super tiger and axanthic tiger and the axanthic super tiger true ghost thingy...

...nice snake...not saying anything bad here...just we see """what is this""" a whole lot now that we mix 3 and 4 genes all the time...

good luck.!
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........JY

The normal in the pic. is a Het. Pied that was emerging at the same time. This is the female (as a neonate) that produced the litter

N/P

N/P

This animal has produced a few Snows but never a pastel or ghost

This is a Spider Axanthic Super Tiger my friend produced from my bloodline

The first Pastel had to spontaneously occur somewhere just as any other mutation. Most do so in the wild, this happened here. I can't explain something I dont understand but just because I don't understand it, doesn't make it any less true.

>>The first Pastel had to spontaneously occur somewhere just as any other mutation. Most do so in the wild, this happened here. I can't explain something I dont understand but just because I don't understand it, doesn't make it any less true.

Now we all know why we have to explain genetics over and over to the new enthusiasts in this hobby..... Nice snake....
Story,well... not so...

Good luck
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Maybe I'm not the only one who doesn't know what you're talking about. A mutation is a glitch that starts somewhere. These two traits (Pastel & Ghost) seemed to have randomly occurred here in a litter with crazy genetic anomalies as it was. I don't think you understand the def. of a mutation if you don't get it. The odds seem ridiculous. Tell me your thoughts in a courteous & explanative manner, please. What would I even benefit from by lying about it, so
I can say they're Het. Albino?

like mine. Check out the random occurance of the Axanthic Ghost Mark Petros produced from no Axanthic input or John Macks historic T Albino Argentine boa production. This included a Motley pattern mutation as well as a Hypermelanistic , T Albino, Albino Motley, Black Motleys - all a surprise = mutation (newbie). I believe Jeff Holloways Hypo pied was accidentally produced in Ax. Pied breedings? Jeff?

>>like mine. Check out the random occurance of the Axanthic Ghost Mark Petros produced from no Axanthic input or John Macks historic T Albino Argentine boa production. This included a Motley pattern mutation as well as a Hypermelanistic , T Albino, Albino Motley, Black Motleys - all a surprise = mutation (newbie). I believe Jeff Holloways Hypo pied was accidentally produced in Ax. Pied breedings? Jeff?

Recessive mutations pop up all the time in collections when the trait was not known to be present..., because they are exactly that.... Recessive. There are countless cases of that.

When you say that a Co-dominant mutation just pops up... well, I guess you are the first to produce a new line of pastel from no pastel... Congrats! What are you naming your new line? Jolliff Pastel has a good ring...
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Hell yeah!!! I have randomly produced two pastels and a few of these banded jungle looking snakes over the past ten years of breeding my VPI Axanthic group... I can't explain it either... The truth is stranger than fiction...The Blue Ball Linage, has a great ring to it!!!

I love the Banded ones....

I took the time to share. The term Tiger was coined by a FL Ball breeder back when it was Orlando, not Daytona. I'd have to check with BHB to see if he can remember the guy that described the trait. This was around '93/'94 before Tiger Retics or anyone was producing any ball morphs. The Albinos were all that was really being reproduced at the time. A lot of larger breeders have developed their own genetic banded animals since. Pro Exotics line being the most dramaticly different IMO. TSK, NERD, Roussis, etc. all have their own lines I believe. I have four or five WC lines of Genetic banded animals I'm working with. I only refer to the ones from my Ax. stock as Tigers though.

Post more pics and thanks for sharing. I'm really digging that blue look!

Oz
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PIJAC and USARK Member
www.OZZYBOIDS.com

I will be posting more soon

...ot of the egg! Looking forward to seeing it!

I'll try to get some pix late tonite