Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i think the bulk of this breeding season's eggs have been laid, yet no good news on this front, and i've read more talk of egg binding, slugs, and breeder female fatality.

i've always seen the talk of differences between the two lines as being marketing. if you look at those who disparage the kahl line, you'll find chiras line owners. and kahl is not going to come on here and defend his line, so its been a one way conversation without him. i own both lines and i think they are one and the same, and both equally gorgeous. those who say it's like the difference between a lesser and a butter, or a cinny and a black pastel, i don't buy that either. i really think they are exactly the same, and i've seen good and bad specimens of both.

but that said, it would be interesting IF these lines really proved to be somewhat different, to know - all the desert females that have had problems and or died, what line have they been? is it both lines? etc.

Buckle your seat belts...

there are many more "desert" animals than from kahl and chiras. They come in from Africa every year. a friend of mine just bought a couple in ghana recently. they are all the same thing. I had some african ones many years ago and they produced like offspring but it was before the glut of visuals that we have now so we thought they were just neat high golds.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

as a poster just said buckle yr seatbelts, i should be clear...

i am not advocating breeding more females. i'll not be breeding mine until (and IF) someone else cracks this problem. the females i have for sale, will come with a disclaimer stating you should do your research and i'd suggest you don't breed these females. like many, i'll be taking a big hit on this project - regardless, i think breeding these females now is something i personally do not want to get involved in, unless a viable solution presents itself. those who choose to keep trying, that is their decision, and thats their thing.

so, i'm not looking for a fight. but i am looking for information as to whether this is an issue with both lines. i assume it is, but there is a lot of info out there on the topic and i'm sure i've not seen it all, nor have many others - so i hope this thread to be useful. i suppose i'm hoping for breeders that have gone through this to say what lines they were working with.

a fight might be had by my marketing comment, but i've seen that firsthand and it's my opinion, which i'm entitled too. i've witnessed remarks that look to me to be transparent attempts to dissuade folks away from one line to the other that i find to be unfair and totally not valid.

out of curiosity did you talk to the people you bought your animals from about compensating you for their "new" values? I personally find it hard to believe that either stan or pete did not breed desert x desert as soon as was possible. They would not have passed on the chance to prove out a super and raise their prices. it is not like there is a huge issue with breeding a 1000 gram female and we have seen 2 year old females for sale that were close to that.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

no evan, i did not. i bought my animals when the first worries / rumors were started, so i accept my getting involved with a project that came with some possible future complications.

i have no idea what the original ground floor folks knew and at what time. i'd like to think most of them thought the project feasible. some of them maybe still do.

so going back to them, is not of interest to me. information is all i'm looking for. and it's on other forums, folks stating maybe you should not breed that desert female as it might mean her death, and it might be the right thing to do to sell yr females with a you might not want to breed this animal statement. thats for each individual seller and buyer to decide on their own. but i've not seen these thoughts posted here on kingsnake, and thought it worth putting out here as food for thought as i assume some folks here do not always check the other forums.

as to the information i think might be useful - there have been comments that the kahl line and chiras line might be different... again i dont personally believe they are, BUT IF they are, then have BOTH lines resulted in dead females? i can only assume they have as both lines have been around long enough to show otherwise. i'm just hoping those who went through it will verify this.

I understand. I dont know what pe knew and when. I dont know what pk knew and when. It does make you wonder if Stan sold the project to pe because he knew more than most thought he did. He had them a long time and made a whole bunch of stuff with them. It is hard to believe he could be completely ignorant to it all. But nevertheless, done is done and now you can just move forward. Based on other genes in the past I still think there is a lot of hope for desert ___ combos. Not sure whioch genes will be the winners but personally I have some insanely big girls that lay huge clutches and I would personally run those kinds of girls to male desert stuff for hope of bettering the gene. E
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

>>Based on other genes in the past I still think there is a lot of hope for desert ___ combos. Not sure whioch genes will be the winners but personally I have some insanely big girls that lay huge clutches and I would personally run those kinds of girls to male desert stuff for hope of bettering the gene. E
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>>Evan Stahl Reptiles
>>www.evanstahl.com

I've recently aquired a desert male with just this reasoning in mind.Perhaps breeding them into stronger breeding females will make a difference after all?
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Charles Glaspie
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