Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I believe this girl is getting her color now.....

Soon she will look like mom....

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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That first one looks like a Splendida, but I know you said the lemon yellow is a Holbrooki. Did the mom look like the daughter when she was younger?
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>That first one looks like a Splendida, but I know you said the lemon yellow is a Holbrooki. Did the mom look like the daughter when she was younger?

The mom looked just like an amel holbrooki when hatched...none of that yellow ground color...only white.

There is a strong splendida look because I bred her to a w/c Refugio County, TX male. This area is in the intergrade zone on the coast of Texas. From there one can find intergrade phenotypes, splendida phenotypes and holbrooki phenotypes.
The cool thing is the fact that he was het amel, but I only got one het offspring and 9 amels in that clutch.

And....many holbrooki hatchlings have those crossbars on the back. With age they speckle out.....Amels seem to take longer to speckle out in my experience.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Ok that makes sense. That is pretty cool that the WC was het for Amel!
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>Ok that makes sense. That is pretty cool that the WC was het for Amel!

Either that or it was Parthenogenesis....LOL
The odds were crazy too.....9 amels and one het.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yeah, I remember now, you posted them when they hatched.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

>>Yeah, I remember now, you posted them when they hatched.

Check out the photos below under Davis' reply......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yeah, that mother is just INSANE yellow!. I'll bet her xanthophores store carotenoids like a warehouse!..LOL!!

Do you really think it will get as yellow as the mother?

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Yeah, that mother is just INSANE yellow!. I'll bet her xanthophores store carotenoids like a warehouse!..LOL!!
>>
>> Do you really think it will get as yellow as the mother?

LOL.....
I think she will as will 3 others....I held on to 7 and my buddy has the het and two other amels (10 total). It seems the females are showing the yellowing more than the males.....

When I first got the yellow amel she had a white head and neck.....In her yearling photo she looks just like a normal amel holbrooki......I will dig it up tonight and post it.

Another "weird" thing the adult female is showing is "raised" scales....like an Angolan python....
It may just be me but her daughters are starting to show this too. Maybe the yellow pigmentation is "stacking up in layers" causing this...I don't know but she sure is different.

I tried to breed her to a young white wall male this year but he didn't know what he was doing yet.....maybe next year. Then we have lavender gene to play with too...
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yeah, that's interesting. I remember you describing her more raised three-dimemsional scales a while back too similar to an Angolan Python. Yes, pretty weird for sure. That certainly would be bizarre if the more concentrated amounts of yellow pigment tended to raise and bulge the scales more. Like her scales are bulging at the seams with xanthin and/or carotenoids like a pressure cooker lid..LOL!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That's so weird. What are your thoughts about what's going on? Very cool for sure and could make for some interesting projects. Is that the first offspring she has produced? Any others ?

K

>>That's so weird. What are your thoughts about what's going on? Very cool for sure and could make for some interesting projects. Is that the first offspring she has produced? Any others ?
>>
>>K

The only thing I can try to explain is the yellowing up....
Many amel tricolors (ruthveni, sinaloans, nelsoni, etc.) are born with white bands where the black is absent. As they age the white will turn yellow. I think the same thing is occurring with these holbrooki.

I do not know why the scales raise with age unless it is caratenoid stacking up.....???????

I have only bred her to the w/c Refugio Co., TX male. Last year she laid slugs after being bred to a Double het for amel and whitewall. This year I paired her up with a whitewall but he did not figure out what to do.

I have a double het lavender and whitewall male, a whitewall male and a double het whitewall and amel male to breed her to in the next three years.......Then I have 3.4 amels from her that I will start breeding next year to see if they can produce more yellow amels......

I hope to be able to produce a whitewall lavender and a whitewall amel showing this yellow coloration.......one day....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

ummmmhummmm

cool

yep.... looks like a getula to me

ummmmmhummmmm

got any siblings pics didny you get 10or11 babies? from pairing a wc? got pics of him? i have a hard time believing he would be a het. and would lean towards either partho or retained... it is/would be easy to proove, but im sure you know that and will do so, wont/arent you?!?!?

pics?!?

,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

I wondered if it was retained sperm too.....
But if she was bred to an amel by Mike Madec then how did the normal het hatch out? I think it may be possible that multiple males can father separate offspring in a clutch......What do you think?

Here's a picture of her before I got her:

Here's the w/c male and her in 2010:

A pic of her right after I got her, notice the white head and neck:

A recent pic of her:

Here she is laying her clutch in 2010....

Here's the one het male offspring:

Offspring pics:





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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

They do it with balls all the time, different males and different babies in one clutch.
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>They do it with balls all the time, different males and different babies in one clutch.

Yeah...and Atrox females are known to retain sperm for a year or more.....

But has all of this been documented in Getula or any Lampropeltis?

So.....My female retained sperm from a prior breeding and the normal that hatched was from a different father?

That too, is alot of coincidence to occur, but I am not ruling it out.......along with the wc male being a het and even the possibility of parthenogenesis......

We'll see what she does next year when bred to a double het male........
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I had a Cal King retain sperm one time, and gave me a surprise clutch, but there was no other father involved.

Interesting!
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Genesis 1:1

>>I had a Cal King retain sperm one time, and gave me a surprise clutch, but there was no other father involved.
>>
>>Interesting!

And how do you know it wasn't parthenogenesis?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Because I just simply thought it was retained sperm.

I have a northern pine from retained sperm as well.
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Genesis 1:1

>>I had a Cal King retain sperm one time, and gave me a surprise clutch, but there was no other father involved.
>>
>>Interesting!

Maybe you should have written a "paper" since there are NONE out there that state Lampropeltis can retain sperm over a winter.....Unless I've looked in the wrong places over the past decade or so......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Oh..it was just retained sperm from the same year..not over the winter.

Freaked me out! I was cleaning cages...and here are these eggs! HAHA!!
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Genesis 1:1

>>Oh..it was just retained sperm from the same year..not over the winter.
>>
>>Freaked me out! I was cleaning cages...and here are these eggs! HAHA!!
>

OH.....I've had a second clutch laid without the reintroduction of a male....

This yellow female of mine was brumated then bred......I don't think it was retained sperm but it was certainly something odd.....9 amels and 1 het from her and a w/c male.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Very cool!!
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Genesis 1:1

I was talking aboout breeding two males at the same time and hatching different morphs in the same clutch. I don't know about one being retained and then another also fertilizing the next year, that sounds unlikely.
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>I was talking aboout breeding two males at the same time and hatching different morphs in the same clutch. I don't know about one being retained and then another also fertilizing the next year, that sounds unlikely.

I knew what you were saying but you said BPs do it....
Has anyone confirmed that Lampropeltis do it?

Just like has anyone confirmed that Lampropeltis retain sperm?
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

It would be easier to know if there were some codom morphs, it's weird there is it.
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

>>It would be easier to know if there were some codom morphs, it's weird there is it.

Apparently the yellow amel IS codom....as well as the Mex Mex hypo-e gene.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

" I think it may be possible that multiple males can father separate offspring in a clutch......What do you think? "

Shoot, I don't see why that would not be possible?
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Genesis 1:1

>>" I think it may be possible that multiple males can father separate offspring in a clutch......What do you think? "
>>
>>Shoot, I don't see why that would not be possible?

Me too, but again, I can't see any scientific papers describing this.......

I bet cornsnake guys have witnessed it.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Yea..maybe with corns.
I have heard of it with boas.
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Genesis 1:1

I think it may be possible that multiple males can father separate offspring in a clutch......What do you think?

yeah i think thats possible.

the strongest arm stretches the bow.

did you breed the WC male suspected het to an albino this year or at least to her again? that will/would answer some questions.

i have a 100%het.amel PH ww female proven by me from don that id loan to you to see if your WC male is indeed a het. which would be pretty awesome because well... because it just would!

,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

The wc male is Todd Hughes'........
I only used him that once as I wanted to start with the other morphs.

I could get him again and try with her and a het female I have.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

i just think it would be cool to prove out that he is indeed a het. from the wild
i would imagine that would be some amazing odds as in go buy a lotto ticket odds.
tell todd i miss him here.

,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

John that high yellow one is super nice looking, when you cross her with the white wall feel free to send me some of the babies.
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www.kingpinreptiles.com

>>John that high yellow one is super nice looking, when you cross her with the white wall feel free to send me some of the babies.

Will do...I'll actually need someone to help me raise them all and breed them so that one day we can all see a yellow, lavender, albino, whitewall.....LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...