Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello Eeveryone,

For the past 2 years i have been telling my fiance no to getting a snake, because i am really jumpy around snakes. Mostly because i haven't had any lengthy contact with them and im always afraid in the back of my head that they are poisonious (i know they aren't) and will bite me and it will hurt. Well my fiance has talked and talked about his snakes hes had in the past. He really likes Burmese and Ball Pythons. This year for Christmas i would like to give him a nice present of something hes been really wanting for a long time. And since i have finally gotten semi okay with the snake idea and have been going into the snake room at the pet store every time i go and looking at all the snakes they have. Even if they have a snake out although i havent held any. I will be posting this in both this room and the ball python room, because even though i know the information might be very close there might be little differences between the two.

I would like some information on Burmese Pythons, so that i can get everything i would need for a python.Firstly what is a good size of python to buy. Are there any things i should look at when getting a python? What questions should i ask the pet store about their eating and what not? I know that my fiance has had problems with snakes being sick when he got them in the past.. so should i ask for a garantee if so how long would makecertain that they are in good health? How should i transport the snake to make sure it doesn't get any chill so it will not get sick?

Majority of it would be what kind of set up is best for them. I know that wood shavings or chips arent quite safe for snakes expecially when they are eating. So what is the best substrate?What kind of lighting is good for these guys? We have an iguana that has a combination of 150W heat lamp and a UVB/UVA light.. is that teh same as the snake would need? We also have a small water fall in the tank as well as a water dish and spray the tank and the iguana all over to allow it to shed easily, which it sheds all the time with about a week between sheddings.. would that be the same with a snake? How do you keep the snake in the tank? I know that they are escape artists. How big of a tank would be a good size for a python to hold it for atleast a year.. i know it depends on the size of the snake to begin with and the amount that they are eating? Also what size mice or rats should i get depending on the various sizes of the snake ( if there is a way to tell that )?

Here's a good question. My fiance and i have discussed this and have two totally different ideas. He says that mice shouldn't be fed alive because it will make the snake possibly strike at you and that its okay to feed frozen mice that have been thawed to room temperature. Not to mention he doesnt like mice so thats one good reason that he only likes dealing with frozen mice. I also agree that mice that are stunned or just killed are better to feed to snakes ( lizards , turtles ) unless they are pinky mice which they dont really have a protective mechanism when they are first born, BUT i think that the extra heat from the animal being eaten helps with the starting digestion and there isn't any fear of rotten or freezer burned mice either. I have a turtle that eats pinky mice every month or so as a different protien.

Is there any information that would make Burmese or balls a better pet?Is there anything else i should know ?

I will try to give a brief answer to some of your questions but I would like to refer you to the care sheets here at Kingsnake for more in depth details.

Firstly what is a good size of python to buy.

Rather than buy if you have the ability would you consider getting a python in need of a home. Our facility has seen dozens of large pythons put to sleep this year due to lack of homes. We currently have three large boas looking for a home.

What questions should i ask the pet store about their eating and what not?

My experiences don’t let me trust pet shops so any answer they give I am suspicious. Be careful.

I know that my fiance has had problems with snakes being sick when he got them in the past.. so should i ask for a garantee if so how long would makecertain that they are in good health?

A visit to the vet is still your best precaution; ask if they have had recent throat cultures or fecal exams performed.

How should i transport the snake to make sure it doesn't get any chill so it will not get sick?

Many herpers use coolers sans the ice of course. Don’t for get to make sure there is sufficient air supply.

I know that wood shavings or chips arent quite safe for snakes expecially when they are eating. So what is the best substrate?

I use rubber mats for all 40 of my reptiles for sanitary reasons.

What kind of lighting is good for these guys?

I do use full spectrum lighting on all my snakes on a 12 hours on and 12 hour off schedule

We also have a small water fall in the tank as well as a water dish and spray the tank and the iguana all over to allow it to shed easily, which it sheds all the time with about a week between sheddings.. would that be the same with a snake?

Chances are a snake will knock it over. Something easy to clean and disinfect is advisable.

How do you keep the snake in the tank?
For the big snakes I find most tanks useless. My burms can breakout of any.
I have custom enclosures for the big guys. I strongly suggest you go with a smaller Ball python

Also what size mice or rats should i get depending on the various sizes of the snake?

Generally, never feed larger than the widest part of their body. Two smaller items over a four-day period is easier on their digestion.

He says that mice shouldn't be fed alive…
I am a firm believer in pre-killed; frozen and defrosted is the only way to feed. I have never had a snake refuse it if done properly; it is all around safer, healthier and more humane.

Is there any information that would make Burmese or balls a better pet?
Go with the ball. Just for the size problems alone. A ball is a much easier snake to care for. Even easier would be a Corn Snake.

Well, there is my 2 cents take it for what you will and thanks for listening.

Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
The SnakeBabe

Link

Thank you Maria,

That helps me out a lot to know more about snakes.. im worried i would do something goofy and get a snake poor in health because they all look the same to me

First, unless this pet store is highly regarded in how it cares for its reptiles, DON'T buy it from there. Instead, purchase a python directly from a breeder. This way, you are getting expert information from someone who has a vested interest in your snake. There are many good breeders and surely you can find one in your region (if you are not sure, feel free to drop me an email and I will personally recommend a handful). All things being equal, if you enjoy both burms and ball pythons, you might consider a ball python as your first snake. They don't get large, are very docile, beautiful and hardy. I have had one for over 35 years and he is still going strong. But, if you really want a GIANT snake, try to get a baby burm. This way, you can grow up with the animal and learn the ropes along the way. MASTER responsible handling and feeding techiques (once again, I'd be happy to help you with this).

The advantage to ball pythons is that they don't require a lot of room. A cage that is 4' x 2' is PLENTY big for even the biggest of ball pythons. Heat gradients are basically the same for either species (the only exception is that the wattage will be much higher for the burm's cage). My ball pythons get temperatures that range from 78 deg F. on the cool side to the mid 80's on the warm side with a basking area that reaches 90-92 deg F. At night, temps drop to the low 80's but still have a basking area that reaches the upper 80's. Burms can go with the same temps, however, I usually don't let me cool end drop below 80 deg F. and I provide additional humidity via daily misting or misting systems. A full grown burm will need a cage that is at least 8' x 3'....that can take up a lot of room.

I recommend cages specifically made for reptiles such as neodesha, vision, habitat systems, etc.

In terms of feeding, FEED DEAD PREY. Your snake will stay much healtier. Just make sure the food is thoroughly thawed and if you want to warm it up, just soak in lukewarm water or place under a heat lamp for SHORT period. I have never had to re-heat thawed food and my snakes are in perfect health and I have several longevity records under my belt.

On a last note, you might also look at other species such as borneo short tailed pythons, blood pythons, olive pythons, carpet pythons just to name a few. These are all beautiful species that get big but not too big.

Hope this helps.

Rob Carmichael, Director/Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation

Well the pet store in our area in the past has sold two snakes to my fiance that in a weeks time passed away from a respiratory infection. I don't want something like that to happen again. But hes also had a ball live for several years and grow to 4 ft, which he lost in a fire. And he had another that he left with a friend that was about the same size which he had had since it was hatchling size which got sold for some reason while he was on vacation. I know he knows how to handle and care for snakes ... and is willing to make a large cage to house a bigger snake .. just as hes willing to build a bigger cage for our iguana which is still very small and can happily live in a 20gal.long, until we get a bigger tank or decide to build a cage and can revert that one back into a fish tank.But for me it would be the first time having a snake in the house and although they are cute to look at through glass im not to keen on holding them because of fear of biting even though i know they dont do it just because.

I think i will have to look into pricing from both burmese and ball around here because i'm not sure which for certain my fiance would fall head over heals with.Space and Saftey would definately be something that would be of great importance in our decision *lol* I will make certain of that. And although he really wants a burm, i think that the saftey issue with children and future children in the house would have to be discused. Because to me it doesnt seem right to get an animal and then "put them out" because you didn't think of the future. We have actually been thinking about a trailor thats for free around here and just has to be moved and although small it would be great for a "play house" for the kids/ live feed breeding area with little renivation.

It seems like Burms are way more difficult then Balls. I will have to look into those other breeds .. but i know my fiance is stuck on these two types and everytime he goes into the pet store he will go into the reptile room and look at both the ball and burmese pythons .. its almost like hes attracted to them. And got so angry when one of the employes that no longer works at the pet store mishandled a snake so bad that it was obviously in pain. The employee was holding a 3 ft burmese at the jaw line and had its jaws going side ways. The employee had said that the snake was mean and would strike at anything. My fiance said that the reason the snake was being so hostile was because of its treatment and that there was no reason for some one to treat a snake like that and that anyone that had even held a snake knows better then to just hold a snake like that expecially one weighing that much.

Basically I agree with everything said so far.

I would like to reiterate that unless you personally know the owner of the pet shop, don't believe anything they tell you about the snake's health, eating or size. Even if they know the answers, which they often don't they are not conducive to selling thier product.

Go with frozen-thawed food. Warm it up above room temperature before feeding, and make sure it's warm all the way through. Fresh food just means the bacteria and parasites in it are fresh and healthy too.

Since he's kept pythons before getting a larger one from a rescue is not a bad idea (I'm not sure I would reccomend it for a fist-timer). A reputable breeder would be the next best (and you might be surprised how much cheaper it will be than the stressed out snakes at most pet shops). If the local shop has decent prices and the snakes seem healthy, think about taking him there before Christmas (don't tell him why until you get there) and have him pick out what he wants. You can't surprise him on Christmas, but at least you know he got what he wanted, which might be something you wouldn't think of. My girlfriend wanted a corn snake or a milksnake for her birthday, but I took her to pick one out and she ended up with a blue beauty snake...
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

I feel the need to point out that MOST rescues are very selective with how they place a snake for adoption. So I wouldn't be too concerned with someone applying to adopt a larger, older python. The rescue, if professional, would likely ensure that the home and would-be keeper were indeed adequate and qualified,.. as well as I'm certain that they would only adopt out a docile animal. I can't see a responsible, professional rescue allowing an inexperienced person to take an aggressive snake. Or anyone less than qualified for that matter. So I would urge adoptions before I would push the purchases of more babies from breeders, (no need to point out the obvious irony) even though, what Rob pointed out about growing with a juvenile burmese is true and unparalleled in terms of knowing your pet. I'd just like to see more effort going in to helping abandoned snakes than in causing more of a market for more breeding of normals. The less that are sold, the less inclined one is to breed more the next year.

>>Basically I agree with everything said so far.
>>
>>I would like to reiterate that unless you personally know the owner of the pet shop, don't believe anything they tell you about the snake's health, eating or size. Even if they know the answers, which they often don't they are not conducive to selling thier product.
>>
>>Go with frozen-thawed food. Warm it up above room temperature before feeding, and make sure it's warm all the way through. Fresh food just means the bacteria and parasites in it are fresh and healthy too.
>>
>>Since he's kept pythons before getting a larger one from a rescue is not a bad idea (I'm not sure I would reccomend it for a fist-timer). A reputable breeder would be the next best (and you might be surprised how much cheaper it will be than the stressed out snakes at most pet shops). If the local shop has decent prices and the snakes seem healthy, think about taking him there before Christmas (don't tell him why until you get there) and have him pick out what he wants. You can't surprise him on Christmas, but at least you know he got what he wanted, which might be something you wouldn't think of. My girlfriend wanted a corn snake or a milksnake for her birthday, but I took her to pick one out and she ended up with a blue beauty snake...
>>-----
>>Larry D. Fishel
>>Side effects may include paralysis
>>and death but are generally mild.
-----
Pebbles create ripples.
Ripples can become tidal waves.
Tidal waves sink ships.
The largest ships sink the fastest.
All Titanics are created equally.

I tried to adopt a normal albino burm around 11 ft from VA reptile rescue. I filled out the form, e-mailed the lady several times. She ended up saying my cages were to small. They measure 79 in wide by 31 3/4 deep and 19.5 tall. She said the albino would bust out of the cage in no time. I had a 16 ft 125 lb burm in there and not one escape. I also tried to adopt the normal light colored burm they have. I e- mailed them and no response. They are very picky. I even changed my walk in closet in to a cage to try to adopt the albino. I have no problem signing a no breeding contract. I am in NC and could of picked them up. I get and endless supply of pigs and rabbits. But i still did not qualify to get the burms.

I would get a baby and go with that.GEt it from a reputable breeder and feed frozen/thawed food.

>>I feel the need to point out that MOST rescues are very selective with how they place a snake for adoption. So I wouldn't be too concerned with someone applying to adopt a larger, older python. The rescue, if professional, would likely ensure that the home and would-be keeper were indeed adequate and qualified,.. as well as I'm certain that they would only adopt out a docile animal. I can't see a responsible, professional rescue allowing an inexperienced person to take an aggressive snake. Or anyone less than qualified for that matter. So I would urge adoptions before I would push the purchases of more babies from breeders, (no need to point out the obvious irony) even though, what Rob pointed out about growing with a juvenile burmese is true and unparalleled in terms of knowing your pet. I'd just like to see more effort going in to helping abandoned snakes than in causing more of a market for more breeding of normals. The less that are sold, the less inclined one is to breed more the next year.
>>
>>
>>>>Basically I agree with everything said so far.
>>>>
>>>>I would like to reiterate that unless you personally know the owner of the pet shop, don't believe anything they tell you about the snake's health, eating or size. Even if they know the answers, which they often don't they are not conducive to selling thier product.
>>>>
>>>>Go with frozen-thawed food. Warm it up above room temperature before feeding, and make sure it's warm all the way through. Fresh food just means the bacteria and parasites in it are fresh and healthy too.
>>>>
>>>>Since he's kept pythons before getting a larger one from a rescue is not a bad idea (I'm not sure I would reccomend it for a fist-timer). A reputable breeder would be the next best (and you might be surprised how much cheaper it will be than the stressed out snakes at most pet shops). If the local shop has decent prices and the snakes seem healthy, think about taking him there before Christmas (don't tell him why until you get there) and have him pick out what he wants. You can't surprise him on Christmas, but at least you know he got what he wanted, which might be something you wouldn't think of. My girlfriend wanted a corn snake or a milksnake for her birthday, but I took her to pick one out and she ended up with a blue beauty snake...
>>>>-----
>>>>Larry D. Fishel
>>>>Side effects may include paralysis
>>>>and death but are generally mild.
>>-----
>>Pebbles create ripples.
>>Ripples can become tidal waves.
>>Tidal waves sink ships.
>>The largest ships sink the fastest.
>>All Titanics are created equally.
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

I live in NC as well where abouts do you live?

I am in greenville NC. E-mail me at aligatorhunter@earthlink.net I will help yo find a awsome snake at a great price.

>>I live in NC as well where abouts do you live?
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

I know that it would be best to get a rescued snake, but because i am not to sure about a snake, I would prefer a younger snake that I could get used to. It would be my fiances pet, but if it would happen to get out while he was at work or when hes out of town. If it was a big snake i would never be able to get it back into its cage.

And since i would most likely have to feed the snake because my fiance will not even touch a mouse let a lone pick one up. When he had a snake before he wouldnt even touch the mice he would pop them out of the freezer package on to a paper plate to thaw and then use a pair of hemostats to give the snake the mouse and throw the plate away. In my case i can pick up mice with out a problem and would actually like to raise them myself where i can prevent mites and give them a good gut load(since i have noticed pinkies and fuzzies with mites from the pet store .. i buy them for my box turtle about one a month)

I see your point about not wanting to deal with the larger snake yourself.

Raising the mice yourself is not a bad way to go, but it'll be a lot of work to feed one snake. Even if you do that, I would still suggest freezing them for a while before feeding, because you have to get the first mice from somewhere, and if any of them have parasites, all of them will. You could probably also simplify your life by raising larger numbers over a few moonths and then freezing all of them, then you wouldn't have to deal with smelly mouse cages for the next six months, by which time a burm would be eating rats anyway.
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

Yes and not only that but my fiance has three daughters the yougest is 9 but she looks about 6( even though she eats like a horse * jelious *). I know that they are all very used to snakes, i am how ever worried for their well being probubly for no reason. If i snake got lose they wouldnt go tuck them into bed with the girls around their necks and constrict or something weird like that would they?( i know im full of odd questions)

That would be very true mice wouldnt last to very long as a viable food thing. Although at the end of teh run on mice it would be possible to feed more then one mouse .. although that wouldnt be so good because of all the fur and skin that would make it hard to digest. Isn't hair good for fiber for snakes or is that a big fib. I know snakes can choke on foods as well so its a totally different world for me.

I know you didn't ask me personally, but if you don't mind I will go ahead and take a stab at answering your questions.

I began keeping large pythons at the wee age of 11. I often allowed the the run of my room. I was a small boy until I was maybe 14 or 15 too and I had many giant snakes during that "puny" time. lol. None of them ever tried to eat me. Sure, there are accounts here and there from around the globe of a large python killing a small human and maybe trying to eat them, and I'm sure some of these stories may be true. But I would wager that the snake was not captive hatched in those cases, and or was likely starved. I mean,. even though it "can" happen,.. that is most certainly the extreme exception to the general rule that they don't do that. I'd say that there is a greater chance of the common household pet dog mauling a child, before a python will try to kill and eat that child. The simplest reason for this is that pythons (this is my opinion, not established fact) understand and recognize humans as humans and something other than prey animals. I used to sleep with my 12 foot pythons when I was a scrawny 4 foot 10 inch, 80lb, 12 year old boy. The pythons knew it was "me" and never had a sudden confusing moment where they thought I might be a food item. So I hope this helps to allay your fears on that. But buy captive if you buy! lol.

As for food,. get your burm on rats from the start. And when he or she hits 5 or 6 feet you can get her on small rabbits. I'm sure you are not as concerned with achieving growth the same as I (a breeder) am, so you can feed your burms moderate sized meals once per week or two for it's life time. You are right about the percentage of roughage increasing with multiple small prey animals. Though this is not harmful in any way, it is a waste of time and money. I'd think that 10 mice would cost much more than 1 rat. But either way would benefit the snake. They are designed to take virtually any size prey within a large range, large or small, round or long, and in whatever quanity.

Tip: Rats are easier to breed than mice and don't produce as much foul odor.

>>Yes and not only that but my fiance has three daughters the yougest is 9 but she looks about 6( even though she eats like a horse * jelious *). I know that they are all very used to snakes, i am how ever worried for their well being probubly for no reason. If i snake got lose they wouldnt go tuck them into bed with the girls around their necks and constrict or something weird like that would they?( i know im full of odd questions)
>>
>>That would be very true mice wouldnt last to very long as a viable food thing. Although at the end of teh run on mice it would be possible to feed more then one mouse .. although that wouldnt be so good because of all the fur and skin that would make it hard to digest. Isn't hair good for fiber for snakes or is that a big fib. I know snakes can choke on foods as well so its a totally different world for me.
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"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

We actually have rabbits three infact, all female * coughs* we hope !! But my fiance jokingly said that we should get a big snake to eat any babies if they happen not to be all girls ( i think it was his way of saying hint HINT HINT * giggles*)

I know rats are supposedly good mothers as well as not smelling as bad and do nto bite as often as mice do. But if you could see my fiance around mice you would understand why rats in the house would be a HUGE no no .. although if we get that seperate building we ahve been wanting we would be set.

I start my burms on rats immediately. It saves a lot of hassle. I experience a low percentile of burms that will not accept rats and must be fed mice, but that percentage is very low. Even then I usually will take the time to trick then into taking a mouse-scented rat. I breed mice, rats and rabbits on very large scales so this is really little trouble for me. Often, the burmese that only accept mice easily jump right to rabbit kits. I like my burmese to grow, so this is a logical transition for a small burm that doesn't like rats. A burm only taking mice will take a lot of time and patience having to feed multi-mouse meals or having to mouse-scent rats. If anyone wants some easy to follow tips on how to breed your own mice rats or rabbits, either post a new topic in this forum, or email me personally at BrianSmithReptiles@hotmail.com It's a lot easier than most think it is when you know a few tricks to quick and easy rodent breeding. Plus you will save a LOT of money. I keep a few hundred snakes at any one time, well over a hundred of which are large adults (the overall numbers change frequently with new offspring or sales). We calculated once just how much we save monthly on feeding costs. It was in the thousands when we ran scenarios of ordering frozen food from online suppliers. I would urge anyone with a lot of reptiles to breed their own food. For large operations one could set up the rodent breeding facilities,. hire full time personel to run it,. and STILL save a lot of money on feeding costs.

>>I see your point about not wanting to deal with the larger snake yourself.
>>
>>Raising the mice yourself is not a bad way to go, but it'll be a lot of work to feed one snake. Even if you do that, I would still suggest freezing them for a while before feeding, because you have to get the first mice from somewhere, and if any of them have parasites, all of them will. You could probably also simplify your life by raising larger numbers over a few moonths and then freezing all of them, then you wouldn't have to deal with smelly mouse cages for the next six months, by which time a burm would be eating rats anyway.
>>-----
>>Larry D. Fishel
>>Side effects may include paralysis
>>and death but are generally mild.
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

yes i totally agree that breeding rodents yourself is the best way to go, and is extremely easy! Expecially concidering with the animals that i have i have everything i would need already to breed mice and maybe rats although i would have to get a tub and build a lid to keep them in and feed them though. Concidering we have a dog thats on a high quality dog food ( purina or other quality brands because of having parvo as a pup ), three small rabbits ( holland lop ( 3-4lb max) and Netherland Dwarf (2-3lb max)) which have vita pellets that i buy in 50lb bags at a time because even if it goes rotten before its used its cheaper then getting a little bag for 4 bucks that lasts a week, we have cats ( but to much protien isnt good for rats or mice is it? well then they arent breeding) our iguana gets greens but cant get the center of the stem so i have been leaving a small amount of the green on the stem and throwing it in the rabbits cage and a peice in the birds cage. We also have table scraps of small bones which im sure rats or mice would adore*G*

*Laughs*I would have spoiled feeders *lol*

I have reciently set up a mealworm breeder colony which gets its apples changed out every day because i split apples between our rabbits, african grey, and dog... yes our dog likes fruit and veggies .. dont ask i dont know why *LOL* but he is the shiniest dog on the block even when he hasn't had a bath for a while.

I have actually been wanting to raise mice so i could feed the pinkies to my turtle which adores pinkies .. but they sell for $1.60 a peice here .. and i do intend to get more boxies and also feed them pinkies from time to time, of course i bet they would eat a rat pup too.