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Desert Enchi egg bound surgery. DUW!

amcroyals Jul 25, 2012 10:51 PM

Well, I have now had a personal experience with reproductive issues in a Desert female. I am going to try and make this as short and summarized as possible because I hate to type… LOL
This is still going to be a long post due to pictures and descriptions of my experience. I am posting in hopes that a few questions can be answered and to let inquiring minds make their own decision on this topic. I believe there is some valuable information here and I learned a few things first hand.
On Friday 7/20/2012, this Desert Enchi aka Tiger female passed 2 slugs(infertile ova). She seemed to still have 2 slugs/eggs in her so I waited her out until today. Today I tried to manually palpate these eggs slugs out but they stopped about 3 inches from her vent. So we went to my colleague’s Veterinary practice. For those of you that do not know my background, I am a Certified Veterinary Technician and I teach Veterinary Assistance. My colleague is a good friend and great Veterinary Surgeon. Note; this picture was taken today before we left to the clinic.

Once at the clinic we anesthetized her with a gas anesthetic (Isoflourane). Once under general anesthetic, we again tried to manually palpate the remaining eggs/slugs out. Again they stopped about 3 inches from her vent. So now we are off to surgery.

In these pictures you can see the surgeon removing the first slug. Once removed, he found that she had a stricture in her oviduct that was preventing her from passing the slug. The stricture was so small that he couldn’t pass a red rubber catheter thru (1/8 inch diameter). The stricture was about 3 inches from her vent/cloaca.


Now he is trying to remove the second slug. He tried to move it down and thru his original surgical opening. He found that she had another stricture in her oviduct so he had to make a second incision.


Before he closed her up we obtained a sample from the lumen of her oviduct to submit for culture. I had collaborated with another breeder that is also a DVM and he recommended it since we were there. The results of the culture will be back in a week or so and I can give an update. I don’t think that it will yield anything diagnostic but you never know…. And if you don’t try, then it would be a waste not to, in my opinion.

Post op pictures. She is doing well and I anticipate a full recovery.

In closing I would like to voice my opinion on what I think is going on. My opinion is based on my experience, opinions from colleagues and information readily available from other breeders that have had similar issues with Desert female reproduction. I think at least 2 things are going on.
1) I think that Desert females have issues producing viable ova that can be fertilized. This could explain the very high infertility issues.
2) I think a large number have anatomical issues with their oviducts preventing the passage of eggs/slugs. Like strictures seen in this female.
I hope that this helps those with questions about reproductive issues in Desert females.
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

Replies (14)

tessadasexotics Jul 25, 2012 11:03 PM

That sucks that had to happen, but am glad to hear that she is doing good. We hope for a speedy recovery for her! I would like to applaud you for your forthcoming with your information concerning your experience with your dessert female.

Kudos to you Alan!

lairofdragons Jul 25, 2012 11:14 PM

Alan,
Sorry it ended the way it did but you and me spoke about this over the phone or the possibilities of the results but you were ready for any outcome....I am glad you went the extra mile and backed it up with science and "what you think is going on by what you observed" I respect your opinion on this.
Someone had to try to find out more without guessing what they "think" is the problem.
Please keep me/us posted on the results of the culture that was taken and how she does in recovery.
I have been waiting for some news ever since you told me you had a gravid female.
Give me another call when you have the time I would love to discuss it over the phone instead in a forum...having to type...
Travis
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LAIR OF DRAGONS

amcroyals Jul 25, 2012 11:46 PM

I prefer calls myself ... Lol ...honesty is the best policy! I'm sure we will talk sooner than later!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

amcroyals Aug 02, 2012 12:43 AM

I'm afraid the results are nondiagnostic. There was light growth of 2 kinds of bacteria. One of which was so light it could not be confirmed. My colleague feels that the light bacterial growth is most likely just a artifact. She is showing no signs of infection of any sort and is doing fantastic !

I received the results via email and it was a scanned version. The report has info on it that I was asked not to make public by my colleague(clinic address and name ). He would like to remain anonymous because this practice only treats dogs and cats and publicity that he treats reptiles at this practice would just create a situation that he isn't prepared for...lol.

UPDATE:
She took a rat chub today and is doing fantastic! Thanks to all of you for your concerns and best wishes!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

amcroyals Jul 26, 2012 12:32 AM

Thank you
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

paulbuckley Jul 25, 2012 11:18 PM

my respect to you for coming forward and posting on this. i'm sorry you had to go through that. but thank you for putting it out there.

amcroyals Jul 25, 2012 11:48 PM

>>my respect to you for coming forward and posting on this. i'm sorry you had to go through that. but thank you for putting it out there.

Respect is earned thru honesty. More than I can say for some. Thank you!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

matti1919 Jul 25, 2012 11:48 PM

Thanks for sharing, hope this amazing female is doing well.

amcroyals Jul 25, 2012 11:54 PM

>>Thanks for sharing, hope this amazing female is doing well.

2009. She weighed 1400 g at the beginning of the season. I have 6 yr old females ball python that are barely 1000g and lay just fine. They are just small individuals of the species. thank you for the good wishes!
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

BuzzardBall Jul 26, 2012 07:07 AM

Very interesting! Normally, in that situation, if you can save the female, you've won! So, congrats on that! As far as deserts, I have none but have followed the drana somewhat! Were all the female issues egg bound/stricture related? I was under the impression that there were clutches that failed to hatch as well!

amcroyals Jul 26, 2012 09:34 AM

I have yet to see any proof of a viable clutch from a Desert female. Would love to see it. I think we all would. Only documentation to be found is to the contrary. Last year someone posted a pic of a "Desert" on eggs. The pic was bad and lots o us speculated that may not have been a Desert . Still to this day not another word on that clutch. Or any other viable clutch so.....
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

DChristensen Jul 26, 2012 02:54 PM

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the posts on this - the pics show an important process in the determination of what the underlying problem is from a physiological standpoint.

Your girl was lucky that she belonged to you when this happened, she would not have been as lucky with someone else as the owner.

I would like to encourage anyone that owns a desert female that is or may be gravid now to think about one thing - contributing to the scientific exploration of the physiological problems that these girls have.

If you own a gravid female and she dies - please contribute her body to science. Dr. Shane Whitaker is working on a project to test some theories on this but preservation of the animal is key. Please go to the other site and find his contact info. If one passes, please preserve the girl and ship her to him for histological analysis. We can find out if the oviducts are blocked (like Alan's girl) if ovaries are developed properly, or if there are problems with other parts of the body that contribute to this problem.

Let's put science to work.

toshamc Jul 26, 2012 06:18 PM

I am happy to hear that she made it - as others have said in other hands she probably wouldn't have.

Altho this might just be one of those random things I guess this kind of puts a kink it peoples thinking that simply adding in another morph would fix the problem.

I hope she makes a speedy recovery she is a beautiful girl.
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Tosha

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

amcroyals Jul 26, 2012 06:32 PM

Thanks Tosha, much appreciated
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Best regards,
AlanColesReptiles

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