Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,

It is always exciting to see the snake eggs starting to slit and hatch. It is EVEN MORE exciting to learn that one of the parents was het for a gene you didn't know about!

Here is the pairing (sorry for the pick, they were busy and I didn't want to disturb them too long).

Blizard x Chocolate/Hypermel

Well here are the babies out of that breeding.....turns out that chocolate male is also het albino. Nothing like surprise blizzards to make you week a bit better! I've got 3 blizzards (2 out so far) out of a total of 7 eggs!

Cheers,
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

http://scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

Man, I can't spell for crap when I'm excited to post PICS of the clutch of Hypermels and BLIZZARDS!

Haha, sorry
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

http://scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

Yep, that's always good thing. I really like all these cal king morphs that I have been seeing. Good job!
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Gerard

"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "

www.livebaitclip.com

GONE FISHING!!!

Congrats on the clutch. I really like the first picture a lot. It looks like some mystical event, almost a ying and yang type scene with the complete opposites united.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Congrats! As you said, hidden genes are a welcome surprise when working with hets.
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Shane@SSuperiorSSerpents.com
http://www.ssuperiorsserpents.com/

That is great! The breeding picture really shows how opposite they are from each other in looks. Looks like one of the hypermelanistic offspring is banded. Do both parents have the striped "nitida" pattern to them?
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Hey Ross,

It is hard to know for sure with the Blizzard, but I THINK she might be a nitida type. The male chocolate is almost completely dark brown. You can really only see his underlying pattern in bright light. The pattern he does have is more aberrant than banded/striped.

I haven't really messed with the babies much yet. Once the last one pops out of the egg (which should be today), I'm going to separate them and get better pics of them post first shed. I'm hoping for a nice banded hypermel as a hold back but we will see.
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

http://scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

Here is a combo just like yours.

Kerby...
Link

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Do you remember what kind of parents this one came from? I ask because I want to know how this "grease king" look was made to be a recessive. True grease kings are not recessive.

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Hard to say for sure. I have produced hundreds of hypermelanistics. Davis and Mendotas to generics. Bandeds, stripes, solid chocolates and aberrants.

But I believe that one came from this pairing. Not 100% on that because it was just a hypermelanistic.

Also, striping in cal kings is NOT a recessive gene. I believe that was mentioned in a thread down below?

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yes, that was mentioned down below. OK thanks Kerby, I get it now.
That snake is like a grease king, but its also het for the Mendota hypermelanism and albino. BTW, that light chocolate color king breeding to the Mendota is awesome. I've seen it before on your site and have always really liked it. Its the only one I've seen with that pattern and that light.
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Actually it is not het for hypermelanistic, but it is hypermelanistic, het albino. When bred to another hypermelanistic, all the babies were hypermelanistic and some were blizzards.

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Actually it is not het for hypermelanistic, but it is hypermelanistic, het albino. When bred to another hypermelanistic, all the babies were hypermelanistic and some were blizzards.

I see what you are saying, but you did get this one in the clutch and this is not the type of hypermelanistic banded you would get from the Mendota or nitida genes. This pattern type is identical to the co dom grease kings. Even though its only one, it makes more sense to me that the chocolate banded hyper is het mendota or nitida and het amel.

Think about it this way, if this light chocolate banded hyper....

...is a recessive hypermelanistic morph, why aren't its light bands a shade of brown like all the other recessive hypermelanistic kings? They should be brownish, but they are not. They are light colored like a lot of grease kings.
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Hypermelanism is just a recessive gene, just like albinism. An albino black and white cal king will not look like an albino brown and yellow cal king.

A hypermelanistic cal king can be light or dark, it is the same gene. A hypermelanistic Mendota is the same gene as the hypermelanistic Davis, and is the same gene as the Chocolate Bananas and is the same gene that makes up half of the Blizzard combo. It is all the same gene. The pattern can be solid in color, striped, banded, or aberrant.

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yes, I already know all that. Been knowing that for years, my friend. hahahaha

Where did you get that light chocolate hyper? Do you have pictures of the parents? That would clear a lot up for me.
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**Where did you get that light chocolate hyper? Do you have pictures of the parents?**

I got him at the Tucson Reptile show from a guy named Russ (Sedona, AZ). It was already an adult, so I have no history with it. But when I bred it to a hypermelanistic (het albino), all the babies were hypermelanistic and blizzards, so it ended up being a hypermelanistic het for albino as well.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>**Where did you get that light chocolate hyper? Do you have pictures of the parents?**
>>
>>I got him at the Tucson Reptile show from a guy named Russ (Sedona, AZ). It was already an adult, so I have no history with it. But when I bred it to a hypermelanistic (het albino), all the babies were hypermelanistic and blizzards, so it ended up being a hypermelanistic het for albino as well.
>>
>>Kerby...
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>>Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.
>>
>>
>>
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Same gene here (albinism) and they look nothing alike.....but they are both albinos, nothing more. One is an albino high white and one is a albino banana.

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yep, been knowing about this too. LOL Those are nice!
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Has anyone bred a "grease" cal king to a hypermelanistic to see if the "grease" cal kings are hypermelanistics?

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yes, I bred a wild caught greaser to a f1 Striped Mud morph. Both from the same locale. All the babies were thin banded and only two appeared to be grease kings (Long Beach hypermelanistic). Although the bands had no darkness to them, the bellies and heads were "Grease king" dark. I held back one of the hyper males to breed back to the Mud morph. It will be interesting to see if I can get a Mud X Grease king double homozygote.

In case you didn't see my other post, do you know how these hypermelanistic recessive kings you have, that look like grease kings, were created? Because that pattern does not show up on wild recessive hypermelanistic kings. That's a man made creation. I've always wondered about that, but never asked you. Now you are saying hypermelanism is hypermelanism and its not. Its like saying a kingsnake is a kingsnake is a kingsnake, and we all know that's BS. LOL
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Kerby, just letting you know, The Davis is a Delta in Hubbs book and the Mendota you may think in an Eiseni, but its not. The Mendota is found in Fresno Co. where both morphs turn up in the same population along with intermediates. Its the area where both ranges meet. So, breeding a Mendota to a Davis is not like breeding a Davis to a pure Eiseni. That breeding has already taken place and they were found not to be compatible. There are eggs cooking right now from the same type of pairing and I'll let you know the results when they come in. My buddy from N. CA is putting together a website on Cal kings and is one of the guys that got these results. I'll let you know when his website is up.
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**In case you didn't see my other post, do you know how these hypermelanistic recessive kings you have, that look like grease kings, were created? **

Which ones are you refering to?

**Because that pattern does not show up on wild recessive hypermelanistic kings. That's a man made creation.**

Which one, because the Mendota and Davis hypermelanistics are natural and have an aberrant pattern. Aberrant patterns and the recessive gene of hypermelanistic are 2 different things.

**Now you are saying hypermelanism is hypermelanism and its not.**

Actually it is. Just like albino cal kings can look different but IT IS THE SAME ALBINO RECESSIVE GENE. Hypermelanistic is a single recessive gene and is the same. Now there could be another recessive gene with the "grease" kings. I have never worked with those.

All my hypermelanistics originated from the Mendota (Bill Cobb/Rainwater stock) and Davis (Rick Staub stock) gene.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>**In case you didn't see my other post, do you know how these hypermelanistic recessive kings you have, that look like grease kings, were created? **
>>
>>Which ones are you refering to?
>>
>>**Because that pattern does not show up on wild recessive hypermelanistic kings. That's a man made creation.**
>>
>>Which one, because the Mendota and Davis hypermelanistics are natural and have an aberrant pattern. Aberrant patterns and the recessive gene of hypermelanistic are 2 different things.

I'm talking about the ones that look like grease kings, like this one.

>>**Now you are saying hypermelanism is hypermelanism and its not.**
>>
>>Actually it is. Just like albino cal kings can look different but IT IS THE SAME ALBINO RECESSIVE GENE. Hypermelanistic is a single recessive gene and is the same. Now there could be another recessive gene with the "grease" kings. I have never worked with those.

LOL Either you are not reading my posts (LOL) or you disagree with me. I'm saying Grease kings are also hypermelanistic, but they are not recessive.

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Ross....get your butt up here so we can hang out, go herping, and talk cal king genetics.

Too damn confusing on k-snake threads LOL

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

hahahahaha I'm sure we will learn a lot from each other.
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Both parents appear to be hypermelanistics, but none of the babies pictured are. So 2 different recessive genes, or maybe just one (hypermelanistic).

So the babies are either het for hypermelanistic or they may be double hets, if the other is a recessive gene.

Kerby...
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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Yeah, I'm thinking the grease king is not recessive. My friend bred a grease king to a normal banded from San Diego, and only one came out grease king.
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Yes, except my female was a visual albino/hypermel and the male was a visual hypermel that turned out het albino too (unknown to me until the eggs hatched!)

I was expecting a clutch of hypermels all het for albino but was surprised with the blizzards! I like those kinds of surprises!!!!
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

http://scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

It is the same 2 recessive genes (albinism & hypermelanism).

Here is a blizzard breeding a hypermelanistic.

Kerby...

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Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

Indeed it is haha.

I knew you had one in the vault somewhere Kerby!
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

http://scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/