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I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post links to other forums, so i won't just yet, but there is a lot of talk about Rodent Pro sending out diseased rodents the month of May. Apparently it was such a big problem that the CDC is looking for people that have purchased rodents from them.
Just thought i'd bring it up here for people that havent heard about it yet.
Thank you for posting this, Now I am extra glad I raise my own isolated colony of mice. Feel sorry for the Rodent-Pro folks, though.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.
It does suck that it happened. I can't begin to imagine how much money they are out.
From what i've read, a whole warehouse full of rodents had to be killed/ buried, bedding had to be burned, and a huge sanitation project took place.
If anyone wants to read more, it should be VERY easy to find on some of the other big reptile/snake related forums.
i've used RP in the past and have never had an issue, but since they didn't care enough to notify their customers of the potential danger and offer refunds, i'm jumping ship and going with Layne Labs.
wild question:
is it contagious to either reptiles or to humans? or is it a threat to other pets such as other rodents/ transferrable to wild creatures?
daveb
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alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency
>>is it contagious to either reptiles or to humans? or is it a threat to other pets such as other rodents/ transferrable to wild creatures?
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>>daveb
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>>alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency
Looks like it could infect someone's own feeder breeders, and can infect humans.
The whole situation raises an interesting question, since it's alleged the vendor didn't contact customers, who instead learned of the potential problem and risks from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).
The question for discussion would be, does government have any business intervening in a situation like this involving private business, or should government keep its hands off and let problems like this be resolved by the free market?
Regulation or deregulation?
Regulation!
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
I'm normally all for gov staying out of pretty much everything. However, in a situation such as this when mass amounts of people are put at risk (especially pregnant women and those with weak immune systems), i think the gov should absolutely be involved to insure the problem is dealt with completely.
Aaron, I agree to a certain degree. Word traveled fast through the hobby. I do feel bad for anyone that may have contracted the disease from RP. I also feel bad for the kids at school that contract the flu or when you go to a public bathroom and contract hepatitis. Does the government need to inspect these areas on a daily basis? Or is it the responsibility of the office building owner to make sure the bathrooms are clean and disinfected? I think the only responsibility the government has is to notify people that have come into contact with the RP's rodents. Even then, the company is opening themselves up for a ton of lawsuits. I think after hearing of this and hearing of MD issue a year or so ago, it is our personal responsibility to do our research on the rodent companies we use.
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"Regulation or deregulation?"
That's a hard question, Terry. I understand that rodent breeders are required to have a vet come in and check on their colonies once per year. Is this enough when you have such a large collection? Sickness travels fast with large amounts of animals in a small place. Should rodent suppliers be required to have a vet check on the colony once per quarter or even maybe once per month. All this adds to the overhead of the company. How many people use certain rodent suppliers for the actual price per prey item? I don't, but then I expect to pay a higher price for higher quality.
The USDA has taken over the role of inspecting rodent breeders' colonies when the breeder sells to to either pet stores or the general public. This could eventually lead to the USDA doing the same to personal collections if you plan to sell or even gift excess to other people. I think personal and company responsibility is the key. I think RP will pay dearly for their actions and possibly have to close the business as many will stop ordering based on their actions. I think this is enough to suggest that companies should be personally responsible not the government. See as a purchaser of rodents I can request their last vet visit report. If the company refuses to supply it, guess what I take my business elsewhere.
I believe in personal choice, and the responsibility of the purchaser to do their own "Due Diligence". Not only that,there are risks for everything you purchase, from your house to the toaster, food, etc. Do you research for these purchases? Should the government be responsible for all of it? More taxes to pay for these services? DeregulationMHO
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Jimmy, I didn't want to go into detail about politics on here but I disagree, a little. From what I have been reading, RP didn't even contact any of their clients and inform them on what was happening. That's why I think certain things should have more regulation, how would you have done research to discover this without the CDC releasing the information? I trust someone that doesn't stand to loose money, way more than the companies producing products like these. I don't know the facts well enough to get into heavy and I don't think more regulation is needed for everything but this seems like a good place for it.
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
Gerard, I understand the concern on the actual health of individuals is at risk. So is the field herpers health while out in the field. This disease is active within 5% (I think that's what I read) of the mouse population to begin with. Regulation isn't the answer. I probably work in the most regulated industry there is. It doesn't stop thieves or dishonest people/companies from conducting business. Those type people/companies will always find a way to do what they choose. Regulation doesn't stop it, awareness and a free market will take care of it.
The fact that RP didn't notify anyone just proves that they were out to secure their financials' over their care for customers. MD was found to have salmonella in their colony back in 2010. MD They were able to proceed with the business, because they notified all their clients and even posted a bulletin on their website about it. Especially how they were eradicating their product from salmonella. I agree many people were affected by RP business practice and should be held accountable. To say the government and more regulation can ensure us from it happening again is just false. It will happen again and there is no laws, by laws, or people that can stop it from happening. We can only reduce our risk by doing our own due diligence and research.
I see both sides of the coin and both arguments as an agree to disagree type scenario. I can say RP was being greedy and selfish by not notifying their clients, but this is where free markets come into play. By doing what they did they will loose more than the 750K in stock and the 440K it will take to replace them. Hope they had insurance.
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I vote we save this for Daytona, KS isn't a good place for it. I hope my friends from Texas come, they're always fun to talk politics with, lol! Talk to you later....
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
One of the problems is, Big suppliers like RP, purchase a lot of rodents from outside sources. Lab culls, oversupply, private breeders etc.
What this is going to mean is, much higher prices for all of you.
As of now, rodent prices are based on food costs. Soon it will be like everything else. IT will be based on the cost to government to stay in business.
The large companies like RP will stay in business, but the small companies will be gone. Cheers
interesting... I personally don't want the government to interfere with anything we sell... I wonder how much power the usda really has in these situations. From my understanding, when it comes to outbreaks in our food supply they don't have the power to shut anyone down. I suppose that's a little off topic. Just figured I would mention it because it really burns me! The company should be responsible for contacting buyers and should email all customers who purchased that month etc. I bought from them in may... no email or anything. I have already used most of that product. The only reason I purchased from them is because my local breeder was expanding his rack system and was out. The product I did order though was sub par... it stunk and I will never use them again
i jumped from RP to layne a year ago when i noticed a considerable drop in consistency and quality at RP.
looked it up. It seems as though isolation from wild populations is key. Along with simple sanitation procedures when handling and and cleaning rodent housing. It also appears humans can contract it. Heres the CDC link.
Link
Just a couple of days ago and before having read this thread... I just looked at my order history and my last order was placed in May.
I won't be cancelling my order. Long story short... during the thawing process I'm sort of in contact with the prey items 3 or 4 times before the snakes get to them. After feeding I always wash my hands thoroughly... simple common sense imo.
The only thing that bothers me in all this is that Rodentpro didn't post something on their website... still haven't as of a few minutes ago. As far as other issues... if you handle any dead animal and then without washing up decide to eat a handful of cherries, toss a salad or knead dough for some homemade bread... well I wouldn't place too much blame on RP because you fell ill.
Hopefully RP can weather this... perhaps start with admitting there is/was a problem... and take more corrective measures. I've always been happy with what I get from them... though I will admit the packaging in the last two orders was not what I was used to from them.
In the last year I've seen two frozen feeder outfits fold... The Mouse Factory and Mice Direct... for those of us buying from such suppliers the lose of a third supplier would not be good... how long do you think it would be before standards from the other suppliers fell if every RP buyer had to go elsewhere?
Very simplified view point boys and girls... wash up before putting your fingers in your mouth. 
>>In the last year I've seen two frozen feeder outfits fold... The Mouse Factory and Mice Direct...
>>Very simplified view point boys and girls... wash up before putting your fingers in your mouth.
Mice Direct is still around....never used the Mouse Factory.....But I used to use Big Cheese Rodent Factory before their in state shipping got ridiculous.....
Great post IMHO.......I wonder how a wild snake checks out its prey before eating. Just wash your hands like after you handle raw chicken.......lol
Mice direct had a recall last year or so and we all got another equal order for free.....my snakes got to eat double......lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
"Mice direct had a recall last year or so and we all got another equal order for free"
Not all of us, some of us used the whole order up before the recall.LOL I am just glad that they notified me, and my precautionary practices came in handy.
It's just like washing hands after going to the bathroom.LOL
Any of us with kids consistently remind them to wash before a meal and after a bathroom, if I had a nickel for every time I asked "Did you wash your hands" I would be rich!
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I stand corrected... when I use the link for Mice Direct here on KS I get a server not found message... I assumed they were gone after their recent problems. Doing a simple google search does show they are alive and well.
Double order? I would have taken that for the chance of salmonella... I take less care after handling chicken than I do with my frozen feeders.
Gerry
" I would have taken that for the chance of salmonella"
That's funny! You know what else is funny the amount of food recalls that never even make to the main stream media. There is at least one food recall everyday. I don't see a ton of hoopla over half of them. Wonder why? Because most people know to wash their produce before eating that salad.LOL
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Gerry, MD didn't go under, they are still selling rodents and feeders. I think the disrespect of RP is where they will loose all their business. I don't know how true this is, but this isn't the first time that disease showed up in one of their colonies. (Read 3rd hand information) The ban was lifted on July 11. Here it is August and we are just now finding out all the details. They didn't want anyone to know and tried to slide it under the radar with no one knowing about it.
Here's an excerpt from an article about RP:
"“When we went back for an inspection, we found 12 mice running loose,” she said. “I remember the manager telling me that they couldn’t get every mouse. I said you have no other choice. The feces, the litter, they are contaminating the facility. We advised them to poison the water and that seemed to remedy the situation. We lifted the quarantine on July 11.”"
and the link
www.farmworldonline.com/news/NewsArticle.asp?newsid=14991
If it was me I would offer at least a credit for new rodents if the orders were placed between April-July as these were potentially contaminated. Just my thoughts.
I agree with everything you stated as precautionary measures. I hope everyone uses "common sense". Unfortunately it isn't so common anymore.
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Common sense would have been my using more than the link here on KS before making the assumption that MD had gone out of business... as I just stated to Mr. Lassiter, a simple search through google shows them alive and well.
Gerry
Wow... do you think my simply wishing they had made a statement regarding the entire incident prompted their making that post?
I'm not going to check the time frames between their post and mine... I'm simply going to indulge in a simple case of megalomania and think my post influenced a major company!
RP... if you're reading this... I'm not above gratuitous rewards...just e-mail for my account information and my latest order! 
Gerry
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