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Update On Lavender Mosaic Skin Issues

scaledverts Aug 03, 2012 11:22 AM

Hello,

It has been ~2 weeks since I posted the images of the lavender mosaic cal king with the odd skin issues. Here is an updated account of what has happened along with a new picture of the "spots."

He went into shed shortly after I posted the previous picture, as he did the spots turned a darker almost brown color. Once he shed the spots were still there however, the swelling under each of them was gone. He continued to eat really well for me and has been on antibiotics for just under 2 weeks now.

Two days ago I noticed that the red spots had white centers to them so I took him out and examined them a little closer. Each of the spots has developed a liquid filled (almost looks like pus) area in the center. It actually kind of looks like a pimple. This is kind of odd because everything I have read has said that reptile pus is solid and not liquid like mammals.

See the picture below, NOTE: that the red areas are not quite as red as they appear in the photo. I wanted to make sure you could see the white centers.

Thoughts?
Image
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

Replies (10)

Denbar Aug 03, 2012 12:02 PM

Kyle, it almost looks like infected spots that come on people who have been bitten by ants. I wonder if it is possible he was bitten by ants somewhere along the line? Just a guess.

--Dennis

a153fish Aug 03, 2012 04:35 PM

>>Kyle, it almost looks like infected spots that come on people who have been bitten by ants. I wonder if it is possible he was bitten by ants somewhere along the line? Just a guess.
>>
>>--Dennis

I actually thought Ants too when I first saw it, but who knows? I think it may also be blisters like Doug said. I don't think Ant bites would last this long?
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

pyromaniac Aug 03, 2012 12:35 PM

This looks like a viral infection. Has a culture been done on these lesions? Iguanid Herpesvirus IgHV-1 is a possibility.
www.anapsid.org/ighv1.html
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

joecop Aug 03, 2012 03:45 PM

Kyle, have you had a fecal test done? Most vets will do the test if you bring them a sample and I know my vet charges 35 bucks. Roundworm maybe? I don't know, but might be worth calling a vet and asking if they will do a facal test if you bring them a sample.

Joe

DMong Aug 03, 2012 04:19 PM

That very much reminds me of water blister disease. When I was a kid, surprising enough a Banded water snake (of all things) that I had developed this. There where many raised pustules all over the dorsal surface and belly. Unknown to me at that time it was caused from soaking too much (as a water snake would normally want to do). It also had the "pimple" look with pus inside as you described. I would soak that snake in a betadine/paroxide solution ASAP and it should help IMMENSELY!. Of course an effective antibiotic that a vet has diagnosed for targeting the specific bacteria is also needed here after doing a bacteria culture. At the very least a GOOD broad-spectrum antibiotic known to help this sort of thing. This can be quite serious, so it's important that you treat it early and effectively. The fact that it is eating is a very good thing to see.

Here is some stuff regarding it:

Poor reptile husbandry leads to a lot of problems and a lot of diseases that can be easily preventable. Cleaning your reptile’s enclosure regularly and maintaining it at the correct humidity levels is essential not only for general attractiveness and the reptile’s comfort but also to prevent horrible and potentially fatal diseases such as blister disease.

What is Blister Disease?

Blister disease is a common condition in reptiles due to poor environmental management – that is, housing the reptile in overly-moist or dirty surroundings. It is also known as vesicular dermatitis, necrotizing dermatitis or “scale rot”. This is because the animal is forced to lie on a damp substrate, often saturated with urine, faeces or rotting food and not surprisingly, the skin becomes infected and effectively “rots”.

What are the Symptoms?

The first signs are usually watery blisters on the reptile’s skin. These blisters then burst and transfer the infection into the reptile’s body, leading to septicemia, an infection of the blood which is potentially fatal, as well as infection in the internal organs. In addition, the skin around the initial blister may rot away leaving the body exposed and even more vulnerable to other bacterial and fungal invasions as well as injuries, abrasions and burns. Mites can also spread bacteria to the blisters and in some cases, bacteria can cause abscesses at the site of the blisters which recur as ulcers following the next shed.

How do I Treat Blister Disease?

Small reptiles or those with weakened immune system (either from previous illness, malnutrition or stress) can go downhill rapidly and die very fast from blister disease. Even in larger reptiles, the condition can be fatal, with the reptile suffering for longer (e.g. weeks or months) before succumbing to death. Therefore, it is essential to take your reptile to a knowledgeable veterinarian as soon as you suspect the disease. Removal of the rotting skin and tissue, together with antibiotic treatment, will be necessary to combat the disease. The reptile’s body can also be soaked in a Betadine solution if the infection is still in its early stages. In addition, the reptile’s enclosure must be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected before the reptile is re-introduced; regular cleaning must be repeated on a weekly basis and any uneaten food must be removed after one day.

During the recovery period, it is best to replace the substrate with unprinted paper (newsprint, paper towels, butcher paper), clean terry cloth towels, or plain linoleum and to remove any undertank heating, using overhead radiant heat sources instead to provide the necessary thermal gradient. In general, keep the reptile in a dry environment with good ventilation. If the reptile is still eating and active, then there is a good chance of full recovery.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

scaledverts Aug 03, 2012 06:38 PM

Thanks Doug,

Blister disease had crossed my mind too. The odd thing is: he came to me this way ~2.5 weeks ago now. In my care he has not spent much time in his water at all and his enclosure has been kept dry. That is why I am so perplexed by this whole thing. Could blister disease take a bit of time to develop? The other thing is they didn't start out this way either.

The other thread I started below gives a better description of the initial stages of symptoms.

Odd Abrasions/Spots on Kingsnake

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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

DMong Aug 03, 2012 06:51 PM

Yeah, I know what you mean. If none of the belly scales aren't also brownish/red and nasty looking I sort of doubt it could be from staying too moist before you got it. The belly scales would logically be the one's that would get more moisture underneath them and stay damper than the dorsals.

This is really tough to say, but I think the betadine/peroxide solution maybe twice a day would really help out along with the antibiotic. BTW, what type of antibiotic and regimen is it getting anyway?

It doesn't have to be in the solution for very long, just hold it down in a little bowl of it for a minute or two each time. The stuff is cheap as heck too!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

scaledverts Aug 03, 2012 08:33 PM

I'll up the frequency of baths! I have never tried peroxide baths before, what approximate percent do you use for that?

He is getting broad spectrum (baytril) at a medium dosage daily.
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Kyle R. Mara

Common sense is genius dressed in its working clothes. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

scaledvertebrates.weebly.com/

DMong Aug 03, 2012 08:47 PM

Full strength. If it works great for mouth-rot (infectious stomatitis) in the inner lining of the mouth/gums of a snake, it certainly can't be bad full-strength for the surface of a snake either...

I would think Baytril would work fine as long as that particular bacteria is sensitive enough to it. Without a sensitivity culture, it's hard to say though, but Baytril is a good broad sspectrum reptile antibiotic.

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

thomas davis Aug 06, 2012 05:47 PM

OUCH!, that looks septic to me. i would urge that a culture be done to no definitively what "it" is, baytril is a very good broad span antibiotic but it may not do anything and is why i urge a culture be done, a culture will also give you some idea of its origins.
if the snake is eating then i would feed it alot and offer hotspots upwards of 100degrees
good luck

,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

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