Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Because i went to my grandma's house and down at her pond a found 2 3 or 4ft water snakes and i ive seen a hole bunch of other 1 that were about 2ft

Biggest would probably be the greens or diamondbacks. They can hit 5 or 6 ft possibly. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

I've read that; greens grow the longest, followed by browns, diamondbacks and then redbellys. But these reports are conflicting! The redbelly pictured above on the "banner" is 5 feet long now (and sheds every few months) so I assume she's still growing a fair bit.
I would have thought that the "old texts" would be more accurate with regard to species maximums but Ditmars says that browns are the largest, growing to 5 feet!
The truth is out there but I don't think I know it.
Michael

I've come across N. erythogaster over 5' on a couple of occasions. One came in right around 5 1/2' and was about as big around amy forearm. I've also found at least two that would have been close to, if not right at 5'. I just got my first brown and have only seen one DOR and it was about 3', so I can't say possitive either way about that one, untill my baby gets all grown up!
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Conrad

Too Fast Reptiles

I've never posted on this forum before(i mostly have beardies, turtles, and ball pythons), but I have kept water snakes and read this forum lots. I can say that the largest water snake i have ever seen was a big red belly. My dad saw him sitting on the edge of a major highway and brought him home. With much difficulty(he didn't seem to like being held...lol)we managed to get him up against a tape measure and he was over 6 feet. None of the reptile people in my area had ever seen one anywhere near that and I really wanted to keep him. Unfortunatly this was at a time in my life that I didn't know how to care for reptiles that wouldn't eat and rather than have him die we released him into a protected area. Sorry I carried on like that.

Here are the maximum recorded lengths for all the big boys. This information is the most current on the genus.

N. cyclopion = 1270 mm
N. erythrogaster = 1636 mm
N. fasciata = 1588 mm
N. floridana = 1880 mm
N. rhombifer = 1600 mm
N. sipdeon = 1500 mm
N. taxispilota = 1766 mm

Sorry it's in metric but you get the idea.

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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

The largest Nerodia I've seen were taxis. I saw a couple this summer that were around 4 1/2 to 5 feet. I have also caught Nerodia floridana and N. erythrogaster right around 4 feet in length. I would promptly soil myself if I ever saw a six foot Nerodia. Imagine the bite...
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Did you say you thought the Florida green water snakes were rather hard to keep in captivity?

I would be interested in keeping the reddish phase, though I've never seen one.

I swam around a rice field in Arkansas with 5 foot diamondbacks. Turns out they were smarter than me, I couldn't get my hands on them.

Joe

I've had various problems with all the Greens I've ever kept, though that number has been limited. WCs wouldn't take fish for me readily but the few CB babies I've had would snatch up rosies. I've got a small juvie female that's going on a bit of a hunger strike right right now, though. I think that they can be kept easy enough if you're able to give them the proper requirements, namely security, an overhead heat source, and a steady supply of whatever food they'll accept. That red phase is stunning isn't it. I'm going to have to get some of those someday.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Green? Red phase? What red phase?
Michael

There is a gorgeous red phase of N. floridana that occurs in SW Florida. Typically they show up intermittenly among the normal looking Greens but I've heard of some areas in teh Evergaldes where this phase is quite common. See the attached link for some pics.
Page w/ red phase floridana pics

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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Alright! I've seen that before but did not recall it as a "red phase" green water! Every day I'm astonished at the variety of nerodia! Like the red (northerns?) you posted last year sunning in trees, which are really something.
By the way, how are your diamonds doing?
Michael

...are doing ok. They eat much more tentatively than most my other Nerodia and I usually have to leave them in feeding containers with rosies overnight for them to get a belly full. They aren't growing remarkably fast and probably are around the 12" mark right now. Maybe I can find a fish species that they're more enthused about.

My baby erythrogaster couldn't be doing better. Their feeding response has exploded and most took lightly scented pinks this week without hesitation. Some are just now entering their third shed and are showing some gorgeous orange ventral pigment. I need to get some pics up here badly.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Pics up badly? You bet!
My browns seemed to eat sparingly and grow very slowly but ... they appear to be catching up. I have'nt made any attempt to measure them but I'd say the female is about (18"?) long - I'll try to confirm this later. Anyway, they're remarkably slender still which I'm thinking is just a "babyhood" condition with bulking up occurring more in their teen years. I suppose Taxis and D'backs may share this trait whereas the florida banded thickened up, females anyway, much more quickly. But then, the Floridas where ravenous feeders as well from the outset.
Michael

Where does the red come from? It's bad enough that these guys were'nt called "Tiger snakes" but now I have to contend with red greens!
And why would a predominantly green snake with distinct black markings express a red deviation? with populations that represent it?
Michael

Why are there red Greens? There are many possible explanations. Peninsulas are often areas of speciation/sub-speciation as gene flow is greatly restricted. That's why you have all the Florida sub-species (Glades Rats, Brook's Kings, Mangrove Waters, FL Waters, S. Florida Mole Kings, etc.). Possibly the substrate in S. FLorida is more reddish and lends success to red colored watersnakes. Maybe it's a remnant ecxpression of a relict subspecies from the last ice age. It's interesting but I doubt there is a concrete explanation.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Hi - Many thanks for the data. Could you please cite your source(s)?

Thanks again,
Joan

That data is from the upcoming Watersnake book by Gibbons and Dorcas. It's due to be published in Spring of 2004. It covers Nerodia, Regina, and Seminatrix.
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

I'll sure be gettin' that book
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Justin

I believe he is referring to:

Gibbons, J.W. and M.E. Dorcas. in press. The Natural History of North American Watersnakes. University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, OK.

I can't wait to get a copy with color plates!
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Pierson Hill

Herpetology and Herpetoculture

Conant and Collins 1998 (Reptiles and Amphibians of Eastern/Central North America) confirm all of Pierson's numbers exactly, except one. They list the record for N. erythrogaster as 1575 mm. I'd go with Pierson's 1636 mm, as the data he cites is more recent and the record probably has been broken since '98.

There is one other domestic "water" snake that might be worth considering. Not a Nerodia, but semi-aquatic nonetheless: Agkistrodon piscivorus conanti, the Florida Cottonmouth, has a record length of 1892 mm according to Conant/Collins.

And if we're just talking about aquatic or semi-aquatic snakes in general, not necessarily domestic or Nerodia, there's the green Anaconda at around 30 feet or so.
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MichaelB