Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Zafina and Zane's lone baby hatched this morning. Good vigorous hatchling. None of Zafina's other 6 eggs were any good from the get go. Zane fathered Zunchara's 10 egg 100% hatch, so whatever caused the problem with Zafina's clutch was not due to him being sterile. She is a 2009 so maybe she was not old enough, but her cousin Dotz had 7 babies last year at the same age. So I don't really know what was wrong with Zafina's eggs.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

Sterile or not , is very simplistic. It really doesn't work that way.

Of course theere is infertility.

Also, Weak, immobile sperm occurs. As well as sperm death during the period its held in both the male and female. This can and does occur with strong healthy sperm.

Also egg weakness and death occurs. IT can and does occur when eggs are held to long.

YOur evidence suggests the male was producing good sperm. So its most likely something that occurred after copulation. Cheers

>>Sterile or not , is very simplistic. It really doesn't work that way.
>>
>> Of course theere is infertility.
>>
>> Also, Weak, immobile sperm occurs. As well as sperm death during the period its held in both the male and female. This can and does occur with strong healthy sperm.
>>
>> Also egg weakness and death occurs. IT can and does occur when eggs are held to long.
>>
>> YOur evidence suggests the male was producing good sperm. So its most likely something that occurred after copulation. Cheers

All true and things I have witnessed and thought the same.
Another thing I think about is the male using up all his viable sperm on the first female then having a lower sperm count on the females after the first......this could be a husbandry flaw like temps and/or hydration.....

But then it could be temps and/or hydration after the sperm was already in the female.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

So what the two of you are saying... it's a crap shoot.

Congrats again Bob.

I have no idea how you get a "crap shoot" out of what was said.

No offense, but all normal healthy males, produce viable sperm and in quanity. That is the difinition of normal and healthy.

If they don't or cannot, then something is wrong with your husbandry. Sir, that is how your suppose to gauge your own husbandry.

A crap shoot is when you use male after male in the hopes that one will work. Thats a crap shoot. Cheers

Could very easily be an issue with the opposite sperm duct or something else malfunctioning on one side only.. Maybe only one side is fertile or functioning properly. This is another reason nature has male snake's typically stagger the use of their hemipenes so they have better odds at having good viable sperm whenever they happen to enconter a female, or even copulate with the same female soon after again. It's almost ALWAYS the opposite hemipenis that is used for the next copulation. I have been noting this for several years now and never payed much attention or gave it a second thought. When a good buddy of mine brought this to my attention a couple years ago after documenting the sides his Hondurans were using, I found it very interesting and started paying close attention to future matings at my place. Sure enough, 9 times out of ten the male uses the opposite one every successive time! be it Hondos, kings, corns, rats, etc...

.....strange but true!..

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Two separate units (excuse the pun) that could be good or bad for any number of reason(s), just like anything else in an animal.

~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>Could very easily be an issue with the opposite sperm duct or something else malfunctioning on one side only.. Maybe only one side is fertile or functioning properly. This is another reason nature has male snake's typically stagger the use of their hemipenes so they have better odds at having good viable sperm whenever they happen to enconter a female, or even copulate with the same female soon after again. It's almost ALWAYS the opposite hemipenis that is used for the next copulation. I have been noting this for several years now and never payed much attention or gave it a second thought. When a good buddy of mine brought this to my attention a couple years ago after documenting the sides his Hondurans were using, I found it very interesting and started paying close attention to future matings at my place. Sure enough, 9 times out of ten the male uses the opposite one every successive time! be it Hondos, kings, corns, rats, etc...

The functioning problems you described are certainly a possibility as well as the problems I've described in husbandry (temps/hydration) after insemination. Then there is the overall health of a female and if her reproductive system is working correctly in each of her oviducts.....

And I, too have noticed over the years that the male utilizes both hemipenes alternating each time......
I was told this a long time ago, but I never really see all the copulations.......
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I agree, there are just too many unknown possibilities and variables that can take place at any given time under a number of different conditions. About the only thing anyone can really know with any certainty is if they examine sperm sample slides with a microscope to at least eliminate that one factor off the check list of possible scenarios..LOL!

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

The plug forms in aprox 24 hours. How about watching for sperm that falls out after copulation, look a day or two after first copulation. ITs easy to see, find and observe.

Also, I did not come up with this one, this I learned from others and confirmed with my animals.

Also, I do have questions as to how it occurs.

There are many ways to test this. Try it. Cheers

Also kings form a cloacal plug. Thats where the female forms a plug so it cannot be fertilized.

That is formed right after the first copulation. Within a day or two. Once its formed, you can see the sperm ball fall out after more copulations.

>>Also kings form a cloacal plug. Thats where the female forms a plug so it cannot be fertilized.
>>

What would be the evolutionary explanation for this? Seems counter to "survival of the fittest".

..and so began....
....recreational sex...

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

...LMAO!!!..

Hence the term "sneaky-snake"
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>...LMAO!!!..
>>
>>Hence the term "sneaky-snake"
>>-----
>>"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
>>
>>serpentinespecialties.webs.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

ITs been known and published for a very long time. Maybe the work on kingsnakes by Carpender, out of oklahoma. I think that was published in the mid to early seventies.

Its not our job to rationalize nature. I imagine there is a reason for that. And its most likely not about survival of the fittest, which is absolutely taken wrong by most folks. As your doing here.

If I would to guess it would be to keep sperm in place and to keep it clean from infection or polution.

By the way, I think the fittest is the male the female chooses to cloacal gape for. You know, the male that attended her and courted her. I really don't understand why they would have mating rituals if any male could pork the thing and knock her up.

By the way, which male is a flock of sparrows is the fittest, when they fly in flocks and nest in pairs, man that must be confusing. hahahahahahaha

Wow, not reply?

A question about survival. does that mean the biggest strongest individual in a group. You know the fittest.

Lets take the sparrows again, what would happen if one sparrow was stronger then the others. Would it fly ahead of the flock. Hmmmmmm it would be a target for Coopers.

The fittest is often times who fits the average the best. As that is what keeps a species a species. Dang things are not humans. Weird huh?

Nice Bob... especially liked the animal in your "Last but not least post"... congrats on all your neonates!

Gerry

Thanks, Gerry! Now to get them all feeding. This year I am just putting the pinks in little cups in the cages and letting the babies find them, generally around dusk and into early evening. Of my first clutch 6 of seven have now eaten a pinky. The second clutch still has yet to shed, then I'll do the same thing with them.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.

This is a new thing to me! Most interesting.
I suspect the problem was with the female, though. Just a hunch. Her one good egg was well calcified, whereas the duds were sort of rubbery with basically no calcium on the shell. So I am going to try feeding her a more calcium rich diet ( even though she was getting the same diet as the other two females who did great)

A breeder friend told me that when the female lays slugs it is a problem with the male but if she lays regular size but dud eggs it is a problem with her. He also said this is common with first time females.
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Bob
Pyromaniac AKA Greatballzofire
Keeping cats allows man to cohabitate with tigers. Keeping reptiles allows man to cohabitate with dinosaurs.