Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As luck would have it, I was able to schedule a family vacation to Florida at the same time as the the big Daytona reptile show. I've been to this show before (about five years ago) so I knew what to expect and overall this show like many of the other bigger reptile shows has turned into a very large ball python and boa morph fest.

Since this is the milk snake forum I'll say that Don Shores was there with some very nice reverse albino Hondurans and some very nice hypo and extremes. It was great to actually talk with him face-to-face for a few minutes. Other than that, the Honduran scene was pretty much limited an assortment of morphs thrown on tables from pet shop and massive multiple species dealers. There were actually more albino Nelsons milks than anything else from the milk world and a decent selection of Pueblans if that is your scene. I did not see one black milk on Sunday when I was there nor any Andeans which is pretty sad. There was a two-headed albino Honduran, I think on Ben Siegel's table. I remember Ben when he had his little shop in Ocala. Glad to see he's still around.

A couple of highlights, some not milksnake related:
I was pleasantly surprised to see blue-tongue skinks making a comeback at a show of this size and priced higher than previous years. I've always had a soft spot for these.

There were a ton of leopard geckos there and a lot of vendors marking them down by 50% on Sunday. Lots of crested and gargoyle geckos that seemed t have pretty stable prices and some really cool patterns. I did not see enough Leachianus geckos. I miss keeping these.

If you like pits I only saw one table (Peace River Herps) that had any real selection of bull and pines.

Arboreal alligator lizards for $1,200?! They are cool and unusual and I saw a lot of them at the show.

Scale-less corn snakes for $7,000?!!!! I'll admit they look really cool but $7K for a corn just seems really dumb given how much they can reproduce within two years.

Which brings me to my ball python rant. Over the years I've seen the number of vendors selling exclusively ball pythons grow at each show to the point where the marketing and selling and quite frankly the pyramid scheme behind this species is dominating our hobby. I know it may sound hypocritical for me to say this after breeding recessive morphs in colubrids for so long (remember the great race for the first triple-homozygous Honduran?) but how is this furthering the hobby and how is this nothing more than a money grab? I understand that for many this is a business and it makes business sense to breed balls if you can find enough people to pay those prices but I am flabbergasted that the market is not saturated. Or maybe it is and that $3,000 lemon zinger bee balm super ball you bought a year ago is now only worth $1,500 so you have to find a way to blend in some new morph to make back your original investment.
I used to like to go to reptile shows, when I was not selling, to see some of the stuff in person I could only see photos of on the Web or in magazines. Now? I was done after three hours in Daytona where in years past I might have spent eight hours there and still not felt I had seen enough.
On Sunday there was still a lot of selling going on which is great for vendors even if a lot of the sales I saw were pet shops owners buying up lots for eventual re-sale. If anyone else was there , please chime in with your observations.

Photos are of th two-headed hondo, the crazy scaleless corn and a crated sulcatta tortoise (which just looked too sad but maybe it was a good warning to anybody buying the cute hatchlings nearby for $60).

Thanks,

Rob Haneisen

One of the coolest things I saw outside the show in Daytona was this awesome green Dodge Challenger SRT. I love modern muscle cars. It had a vendor tag on the dashboard so somebody must be making some good coin to own this car.

I also visited the Jacksonvile Zoo and was there for the Komodo dragon feeding. It was the reptile highlight of my trip. Nothing like seeing a very intelligent-appearing 9-foot monitor stalk its enclosure and gobble down baby chickens. If you are ever near the Jax Zoo it is worth the trip. It is one of my favorite zoos to visit because of its open air style and massive botanical component.

And lastly, the reptile I have always associated with living in Florida: the gopher tortoise. I helped one cross a busy highway near St. Augustine and saw another just grazing on somebody's flower garden in the middle of the day. These guys are awesome.

And here's the photo of the gopher tortoise.

I've had these guys as pets when I was a kid, they are really great!

I still rescue one or two a year...urban sprawl is wiping these guys out, makes me sick.

-Rusty

Enjoyed your posts Rob. I too was at Daytona, mostly to pick up some supplies, which I do every year.

I love the Jax Zoo, especially the new asian section where the Komodos are. I am about an hour away and drive school bus, so get to go with field trips occasionally. The Florida exhibit is pretty nice too.

--Dennis

Luck? Sounds like planning Rob.

As you know the main show Nathan and I go to is the Manchester one... I've often wondered if the "big" shows are really any different and if there are really that many more vendors.

From what you say Daytona just seems like Manchester or any other reptile expo... thanks for the report... hope you had a great vacation.

Gerry

Yup. Good planning.

You are right that the show in Daytona is not that much different from Manchester with three exceptions.

1. Some different breeders.

2. The night time events (dinners, auctions and socializing)

3. More presence for legislative efforts (USARK)

KCtrader:

I did spend some time also talking with Tom Keogan and Lee Abbott, which was fun and something I would only get to do at a show like this.

Rob

KcTrader:

Forgive my ignorance, but what company, breeder are you?

I don't blame BPs for the decline in colubrid keepers. I just don't see or understand the appeal other than a blatant attempt to make money. I don't begrudge anybody trying to make a buck - when I was breeding colubrids I went about it with an interest in the animals and an attempt to make the hobby pay for itself (which it did). With BPs, especially the amount of money people invest, it comes off as strictly business and I think you lose some of that passion people have when working with reptiles if you only work with one species to produce the next greatest morph. I know I'm in the minority on this and I say this with the memory of hatching out Honduran morphs and how much fun that was. But I think it is a whole different ballgame when you are talking a $200 snake versus a $10,000 snake. There is a lot riding on that clutch hatching beyond posting a cool photo on kingsnake.

I'm glad you had a good show and most of the vendors I spoke with also said the show was good and definitely better than two years ago when the economy really sucked.

Just to clarify, I did have a good time at the show and I hope I did not come off too negatively in my post. I was just trying to point out an observation I've seen in the past couple years, something that I think exhibits a lack of balance in the hobby/industry.

Here's this observation, partly from my wife. Years ago, we used to notice a pretty even split of reptile people: you had your soccer Mom types with kids in tow; you had your science geeky types that typically like the natural history, locale and other aspects of the animals, sometimes the hard to get ones; and you had the tatooed up extreme looking folks who had snakes because the were cool and bad-ass. I loved seeing this great mixture of people together all with some common interests. I don't see that same balance in the mixture of people and I think that is reflected in the lack of balance in the hobby/industry regarding what is being kept.

If I'm ever there again and you are vending it would be great to chat.

Rob

Holy crap, I did talk to you! I spoke with you right after you sold a group of 8 pueblans (hypos and apricots) on Sunday morning. I said, "That's always nice to see" and you replied, "Yeah, but I have been feeding them for a year." You had some fantastic snakes on your table. Damn, we should have visited more.

thanks for the update. I was wondering how the show went, especially from a lampropeltis prospective.

I generally don't vend at shows because I don't produce what the general public that attends those shows wants. Not many people are looking for baby, stubborn feeder NA milks and like someone said, its just as easy, if not easier to sell stuff on line and not deal with the hassel of packing everything up and setting up tables, etc.

When I used to breed cal kings and corns, I did pretty well at shows! lol

Thanks again for the info.

Dave
DNS Reptiles - Milk Snakes

.....I bred snakes for 20 yearsw...started off with corns mostly...when there were no shows...and genetic conversations lasted 3 hours between me and Rich.....

slid into milks....wanted all 26 ssp....

slid out of milks.....(can't get all 26 ssp...can't make money )

slid into balls....

sold my collection half price....balls are worth ALOT !!!!

pretty much gave the milks away and still wasn't paid YET !!!!(not all )...

do the math....offered $20 for adult-locale-reds.....make $ XX-K for balls.....
-----
........JY