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So who else has a visual Paradox that is NOT an albino?

This one came from a DH Sunglow bred by a Sunglow. Is not a visual Albino and is visual Hypo so she is a DH Sunglow (pos Super).....

Even at birth she had different coloring from the other DH Sunglows:

A couple months ago sporting her whacked out coloring and patterns:

Today:

Sure looks paradox to me. There was another paradox but not nearly as visual as this one and also a female so I only kept one.

What do you think of her?

(some pics taken without flash, others taken with)
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I could be wrong but I think I remember hearing that all of the paradoxes are not actually albinos, that they actually breed as hets. If that's the case it makes sense that yours is just variable and on a spectrum of appearances.
jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

Hmmm, As a baby I thought it was clearly not Albino even though it did have whacky coloring it should not have. Way different than it's siblings.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Interesting Hypo . . . . . . does it have pink eyes or something ? . . ..

I'm just wondering why the label "Paradox" is attached ?

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I Support USark.org

Paradox because it has similar wrong coloring that the visual Albino Paradox animals do. Also when compared to it's littermates it clearly was different than the other DH Sunglows and het Albinos. I've produced dozens and dozens of visual hypos with nothing like this before.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I love this animal! I was considering picking up the other paradox sib when you had her listed, but I just couldn't pull the trigger b/c she didn't look like this girl. I don't even care that paradox isn't "genetic" this animal is soooo beuatiful and in my opinion better looking than any visual albino paradox I have ever seen! Seriously this is one sweet animal!
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"Go Big or Go Home" Muscle Morph Constrictors Inc. Long Island, New York * MuscleMorphConstrictors@yahoo.com

Thanks, the other did eventually sell and yeah, was not as nice as the one I kept. I think it may have been a single gene hypo and this one a two gene Hypo (super hypo)
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Just putting my 2 cents in.. and I acknowledge that every case is different and that my Paradoxes in this case are not as "extreme" as others I have nor ones I have seen pictured on this forum.I saw Mike Panachi post his awesome and extreme Paradox males on KS years ago and know at least one proved out to be a DH Sunglow...but, with all of that said:

In 2010 , I bred a male Paradox :

and a virgin female Paradox:

and ended up with an entire litter of Albinos.

As luck would have it tho., this female refused to stay on the "warmer" side of her enclosure the entire gustation period and ended up having a premature litter but ALL babies were albinos and many were pure white. Again, different snakes are going to have different genetics and other contributing factors but my one pair DID in need throw ALL albinos so the parents MUST have both been albinos as well.

So , yep, thats one experience with paradoxes. To be honest, I have other virgin paradoxes ready to breed but worry about "what if" they only prove to be hets sometimes after hearing others' stories or opinions but I guess you just have to try out what you have and hope big but be prepared to settle for being happy that the babies are just healthy!! Would be cool to hear if others have tried a paradox x paradox breeding as well yet ?!?!

Amazing Boa either way Dave!!!

Jamess

Interesting notion about Paradox being a recessive trait in Boas.
I am trying to learn about Boa genetics and I thought that the Paradox would be a good case to study to hasten my understanding. Turns out of course that not much appears to be known yet about the genetics of paradox forms in boas.

Is it possible that it is oporating differently than what is generally understood of alleles to function in Boas? i.e. a 'breakdown of the dom/codom/incomplete/recessive functioning?
Or what if it is a sign of to much inbreeding, a degradation of the Boa gene? (as paradox is more fully expressed it appears to be an increase of the blending of all the allele traits present).Of course I'm no genetisist, just curious....

------- KujaDude

Meant to write Het not recessive about "Interesting notion" about Paradox genetics.

----KujaDude

This is late, but better late than never.

The most likely explanation for a paradox albino is having two fertilized eggs smushed together so that the one resulting snake contains cell lines from both of the original fertilized eggs. One fertilized egg was genetically albino, and the other was either het albino or normal. That makes paradox albino among the worst traits to use when trying to learn genetics.

How a paradox albino breeds depends on the cell line(s) that produce the sperm or eggs. The more the albino trait shows in the skin, the more likely that the snake will breed as an albino.

Wouldn't a chimera boa show a large proportion of both genetics that were merged? If seeing just some black flecking, wouldn't a leaky mutation (reverse mutation in somatic cells) be a more likely explanation?
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Rick Staub

Hi Dave, here a a few recent photos of your girls sister.
The interesting thing about her is tha the color of her head can change dramatically. These pictures are her in darker phase, she does however at times displays a light beige color (like the lighter color of her body) Her head changes from nearly all black to a medium-light beige.

Also she appears to be lightening up overall a little with each shed.

cool boa! I love the different ones.

I have a similar looking boa but refer to it as a calico. I thought "paradox" referred to specifically an albino boa with black pigment - which fits the definition of paradox in my mind..

here is a recent pic of my calico - a hypo het anery and possible het albno - and i believe he is a jungle. he was born in 2009 from an anery bred by a hypo jungle het albino. I tried breeding him this past season but the female he was with slugged out - so he is yet to be a proven male.

here he is as a baby

Patrick

WOW, what a DRAMATIC change over time!!! And not a long period either...what, like a year and a half -two years?!?! Im curious, what made you want to keep that Boa specifically out of the litter? What a great animal!!!!

I agree with you on the " classic definition " of Paradox. Interestingly, when looking for a Ghost het Albino , the more white scales on it , the more desirable they seem to be and those white scales are a " trademark" for being het Albino though when other Boas have those type of trademarks they are called "Paradox" .Ive always found that odd.

Jamess

thanks. the baby pic was a few weeks after birth - most of the color change happened in the first year. he has stayed about the same since. he is in shed in the recent pic.

I kept him because he is different. I'm hoping he is het for albino and jungle. he is my "freak." I also have a female paradox albino (low amout of black scales) that I produced last year. I'm looking foward to seeing how their genes work.

Patrick - that is a REALLY cool looking boa! Congrats on producing him. I would absolutely lean towards jungle as well!

jb
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What's written above is purely my opinion. In fact, MOST of what you read on the internet is someone's opinion. Don't take it too seriously

Jonathan Brady
DeviantConstrictors.com Site received a complete makeover! Check it out!

LOL, poh-tay-toe / poh-tah-toe

I call it Paradox since it is albino related and has "wrong colors" that it should not have. Yes not identical to the "paradox albino"

On the other hand, Calico is also used in other species (reticulated pythons and Brazilian Rainbow Boas that I know of) to describe a animal born normal looking that develops white scales/blotches as it matures. Still not what these ones are.

Any way you slice it, the odd ones are cool in their own way!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

your definitions still seem to support my use of the words. the huge majority of hypos have some black scales - this is not seen as something unexpected in hypos. but black scales are completely unexpected in albinos.

my hypo has had a DRAMATIC change in coloration since it was born - so using the word calico it to describe him seems consistant with how the word is used with other species.

that's how I see it - but others don't have to.. including you of course.

To clarify, I never meant that mine had black scales where it should not have them. Simply that the colors were not normal. Yes, Paradox may not be the correct term but I don't see another term that fits better. Whatever the proper term to describe them (both yours and mine) IMO they are way cool individuals. Even if they are simply one off oddities.

I do find it amusing that you accept and use the strict "black scale(s) on an Albino" definition of Paradox to support your position and in the same post you also seem to ignore the "White scale(s)" and "coming in at sexual maturity" definitions of a Calico trait.

Using all those definitions, our boas do not precisely fit Paradox or Calico.

Again, still cool boas and I totally agree with you that we all see things differently and are entitled to do so!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Most definitely agree with you Dave..these are awesome looking animals!! I look forward to seeing how he changes as time goes on as well!! Keep us updated on his colors and his breedings!! Thanks for posting him!!

Jamess

Thanks James, It will take a while longer than you might think, it's a girl!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (02/01/2010):
42.61 BRB
27.40 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats