Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yesterday my friend gave me this nice little male Striped Mud morph. This is from Keasler stock. These are one of the rarest Cal king morphs found in the wild and have only been found at one locale in Los Angeles County. To me, this is the ultimate in locality morphs. I was very happy and surprised to receive it.

IMG_8204 by RossAZ480, on Flickr

IMG_8219 by RossAZ480, on Flickr
-----

>>Yesterday my friend gave me this nice little male Striped Mud morph. This is from Keasler stock. These are one of the rarest Cal king morphs found in the wild and have only been found at one locale in Los Angeles County. To me, this is the ultimate in locality morphs. I was very happy and surprised to receive it.

I like it....You need to go find a mate for him, huh?

Is that or any of the "mud morphs" considered hypermelanistic?
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I have a mate for it, remember this picture?

Striped Mud X Scrambled banded Newport by RossAZ480, on Flickr

Hubbs made up the name for the two different Mud morphs. One is a Blotched Mud morph, which is actually the Long Beach hypermelanistic (grease king) and Newport expressed at the same time in one snake. The Striped Mud is not a striped version of the Blotched Mud, its a striped/aberrant version of the Whittier morph. The Whittier morph is identical in coloring, its just banded instead of aberrant. So yeah, they are all hypermelanistic. The Striped Mud and Whittier are the same as the Delta (Davis) and nitida/conjuncta morphs. The striped Mud is the rarest though and has just recently started to be reproduced in captivity.

I have a Long Beach hypermel het for Striped Mud that might be ready to breed to the Striped Mud next year. So, I'm wondering if I can get both genes to express them selves in the same snake. Then I held back A Newport Scrambled banded het Striped Mud this year. So, I'd like to see if I can get the Newport gene and Striped Mud to express at the same time. I have no idea what that would look like, but the situation is similar to the Chocolate banana. And these are all from the same locality.
-----

Very cool projects......
I can't wait to see what you get from those pairings......
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

That is a very cool looking snake Ross! I hope you can pair him up with another like it.
-----
Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Thanks, Jorge. Yeah, I have an adult female ready for him. Right now only me and Keasler have an adult of this morph, which goes to show how early it is in its captive development.
-----

Keasler the man! VERY COOL morph!

Can you explain to everyone why these are so rare?

Is it possible to release offspring in that area to repopulate?
-----

Thanks, Rainer. I like it a lot too. The best explanation I can come up with is when comparing this morph to a very similar and pretty much identical morph found in the Central Valley of Northern CA known as the Delta morph or Davis morph by most people. That morph is very common in some areas representing over 50% of the population, but in some areas it has been found to be quite rare. Those areas might be on the outer limits of its range as I've noticed other Cal king morphs have areas where they are very common , but the closer you get to their outer limits, the rarer they are. Scissors Crossing is a perfect example. I'm guessing the area these Striped Mud morphs are found, are in an area they naturally were rare to begin with. Because most of the habitat in Los Angeles County is developed, there are only a few places left to search. Most of these places have not turned up this morph. Its possible this morph was more common in other areas that are now developed, but we will never know for sure. The striped Mud morph is nothing more than a Whittier aberrant. A Whittier morph is identical to this except its banded, just like how the Delta morph has a banded and an aberrant version. The Whittier morph turned up many years ago (70's or 80's) in Whittier and also again in the 80's in Palos Verdes. Those two areas have been hunted for years and to my knowledge, have not tuned up another specimen since. A juvenile Striped mud was first found around 2000 in West LA by Don Huffman. He then found a second one (adult and both are females) a few years later in the same locale. After that Hubbs and his close friends searched that place like crazy with boardlines going up all over the place. I even searched there for a few years since 2006 and never found any. It was like one big contest to see who would turn the next one up. It wasn't until just this spring when another kingsnake hunter finally turned up a 3rd specimen of the Striped Mud there. (continued..
-----

So, it looks like this morph is rare in all of the sites known and they are pretty wide spread. Its possible they have always been rare, but all we can do is guess why, because of the lack of habitat.
-----

Ross,
Thanks so much for the rundown on these. I always enjoy to learn and see about rarer kingsnakes on here. It is amazing to me these isoloated pops still exists in the L.A. area today. Last time i was in Calif i was looking down from the plane over long beach, there is hardly any green anywhere. All concrete.

Plus I think they are super cool looking.
-----

Thanks for showing your interest in them. I love talking kingsnakes.
-----

Ross,
I read an old manuscript in a Palos Verdes nature center just before the last farm in the area closed down (now Trump Golf Course). It said that a shipment of Cal kings from the central valley were brought to the farms in the hopes of controlling rodents and/or rattlers. Interesting. Could be why PV cal kings can potentially vary, though any kings I have seen there pretty much look alike except in band width (minor variations).

Wow, that is very interesting, Mark. That suggests to me that the Whittier morph found there could have been a Delta morph, because that's exactly where it was found before that Golf course went up.
-----

Makes perfect sense!

That field produced an anery So Pacific rattler, found by me years before there was any talk of Trump. It was purple and black. Many memories in that area. The first time I attempted to breed Cal kings I used a female I found there.

Is that the same rattler mentioned in Manny Rubio's book on Rattlesnakes?
-----

"Is it possible to release offspring in that area to repopulate?"
I forgot about this question. In CA its illegal to do that, but I'm sure its very possible if you can find an area where Cal kings thrive and no one collects from that area and if that area is protected from development and remains in a natural state.
-----

Too bad coastal cal kings enjoy the same habitat as affluent humans. I think money talks too loudly at times. I'm just glad it is still legal to enjoy them in my house.

I hear you. I'm just glad I wasn't born 50 or 100 years from now, when most of this is gone.
-----

Cool looking animals Ross. Congrats. Gotta love the rare and hard to find stuff!!!

Joe

Thanks, Joe. Its good to see them being bred in captivity. Now all we need is a Whittier morph.
-----

Now that's a nice present,Ross. And to someone who will really appreciate it!

--Dennis

Thank, Dennis. Yes, it is in good hands. I even have the history on it. Its from the very first Striped Mud Don found as a juvenile. He found an adult a few years later both females. He then collected a normal banded from the same area and bred it to one of the females and two out of the clutch were Striped Mud, so the dad must have been a het. He gave one of those striped muds to Keasler and kept the other. A few years later he gave me the other baby, which was a small adult by then. I got it just in time for breeding season and bred it to a wild caught LB hypermelanistic from the same locale. I held back a male LB hyper het St. Mud and am planning on breeding it back to the mom next year. Shortly after Don gave me this St. Mud, he gave his last two adult wild caught females to Keasler. Keasler had a jump start and has been producing these for the past few years.
-----

Very cool snake Ross. Oh BTW I think you have one of the most informative and well layed out reptile related sites I've ever visited.

>>Very cool snake Ross. Oh BTW I think you have one of the most informative and well layed out reptile related sites I've ever visited.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Thank you too, John!
-----

I firmly agree as well! I was amazed at the info he put up!!
-----
Genesis 1:1

Thanks a lot, Billy.
-----

Thanks a lot! That means a lot to me.
-----

Verry nice Ross, I really like those they look so cool! I can't wait till i produce some!!!

Thanks a lot, Adam! I'll say it again, those kings I gave you were the very best I produced this year. And I'm pretty sure you and I are the only ones with het Striped Muds that are Scrambled banded and locality. Good luck with them.
-----

What beautiful depth of color!
-----
Robyn@ ShipYourReptiles.com TheReptileReport.com

and ProExotics.com

Thanks, Robyn. I love their black and goldish color as juveniles. Some become dark brown as adults and others become a medium/light brown as adults.
-----

HELL YEAH ROSS!

>>HELL YEAH ROSS!

hahaha Hell yeah! is exactly what I was thinking when he handed it to me.
-----

You are a lucky man!

Don`t know much about calis, but that is is very unusual...
I like the dark coloration ...

Good luck with this snake!

Cheers from germany,
Michael

>>You are a lucky man!
>>
>>Don`t know much about calis, but that is is very unusual...
>>I like the dark coloration ...
>>
>>Good luck with this snake!
>>
>>Cheers from germany,
>>Michael

Thanks, Michael. You are right, this is an unusual pattern for a CA kingsnake. It is a well known pattern, but not common over the entire range of this snake in the wild.
-----

Wow, Keasler puts out some amazing stuff!!! A very genuine person as well. I can't believe I'm posting but when it comes to cal kings, well you know the story. Thanks for the mocha!! It added much flavor to my Oceanside locality future projects. I think the Los Angeles locality is going to take off in the next few years and breeders will be able to hopefully sustain a prized locality. Thank you for your website and all you do to promote cal kings. You are a big part of igniting my passion through reading your blogs and being so cool to me. All the morphs in that locality are amazing. Future looks a lot better than Long Beach?!?! Thanks for everything Ross!!!!

I can't believe you're posting either. lol Thanks a lot for the snake man, I was very happy to give you what I did that day. There's nothing better than giving your offspring to someone that will really appreciate them. I'm glad you enjoy the website. There really needed to be something like it on the web. I went to LB and the West LA spot that day I saw you and I think if the economy was better, that Long Beach field would have been gone by now. There were two vacant lots across the street from it that now have brand new buildings. One building is very new, because it wasn't there last time I was there. That field is all fenced in now and it looks like something is about to happen. They have a new big parking lot on one side of it with some trees planted. The other locale looks fine for now. I didn't see anything unusual there. Anyway, I'm glad you like the Mocha. That will be a very interesting locality project. Hey, check out the classifieds here. There's a Mocha striped for sell. The title is "Hypo Cal king adult female".
-----

What do you make of the patterning? Is there newport influence? Are there newports where mochas are found or do you think locality has been lost?

Mocha's could be found in Southern O.C. where Newports are. Hubbs says they are found even North of L.A. Co. along the Coast. That snake could be a natural Newport, but who knows. If the guy isn't mentioning locality, then its probably not. It is one bad looking snake though.
-----

>>Mocha's could be found in Southern O.C. where Newports are. Hubbs says they are found even North of L.A. Co. along the Coast. That snake could be a natural Newport, but who knows. If the guy isn't mentioning locality, then its probably not. It is one bad looking snake though.
>>-----
>>

Quit looking at my snake....LOL
J/K....I didn't buy it.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

LOL Yeah, John is the one that pointed out that snake to me in the first place. That is a special king, IMO.
-----

>>LOL Yeah, John is the one that pointed out that snake to me in the first place. That is a special king, IMO.
>>-----
>>

Dang...now you are making me want her...
Too bad I'm broke...Or maybe it's a good thing I'm broke....lol
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>LOL Yeah, John is the one that pointed out that snake to me in the first place. That is a special king, IMO.
>>>>-----
>>>>
>>
>>Dang...now you are making me want her...
>>Too bad I'm broke...Or maybe it's a good thing I'm broke....lol
>>-----
>>John Lassiter
>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>
>>
-----

Here I go posting again! I think when I joined, it was the time my first daughter was born and I was on cloud nine. Thus I named my member name after her. Now whenever I have the itch to post, I'm worried people will assume I'm a girl. haha It is what it is I guess. At any rate, the thread above has extensive mentions of the beb. I have been looking for this morph for at least a year. Right when the breeder stopped working with them. All leads have been a dead end so to speak. Sorry for the newbie question but what are the differences between the mocha and beb?

Sorry for the newbie question but what are the differences between the mocha and beb?

Who knows?
They may be the same gene.
That pairing has not been done before as far as I know.
Or it's been done alot if they are the same gene.
The pattern is different though.
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Again, a newbie question. How is the pattern different. I have not seen a beb other than in pictures. I've only seen a mocha in real life. Too bad you stopped working with the beb or else I would be knocking on you door.

The pattern has nothing to do with the gene that causes the BEB morph. You can introduce the SD striped pattern, Newport, hypermelanistic and others. The BEB gene is like the lavender, albino, and hypo. It only effects the pigment in the skin, not the pattern.
-----

>>The pattern has nothing to do with the gene that causes the BEB morph. You can introduce the SD striped pattern, Newport, hypermelanistic and others. The BEB gene is like the lavender, albino, and hypo. It only effects the pigment in the skin, not the pattern.
>>-----
>>

I know this....read my reply below as to what I meant....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

John, the pattern can be anything, it doesn't change the gene that causes it to fade out dramatically. I'm pretty sure its different than a BEB or any lavender. When two Mocha's are bred together, the babies come out a normal brown. Until I saw that add, I had no idea how long it took for them to fade out. That snake is only 4 years old, so I guess by the time they are adult, they look like that. There are some pictures of the ones Jeff had on my website page "Genes & Morphs" at the very bottom. Its unclear at this point how its inherited. I'm sure someone out there in la la land knows.
-----

>>John, the pattern can be anything, it doesn't change the gene that causes it to fade out dramatically. I'm pretty sure its different than a BEB or any lavender. When two Mocha's are bred together, the babies come out a normal brown. Until I saw that add, I had no idea how long it took for them to fade out. That snake is only 4 years old, so I guess by the time they are adult, they look like that. There are some pictures of the ones Jeff had on my website page "Genes & Morphs" at the very bottom. Its unclear at this point how its inherited. I'm sure someone out there in la la land knows.
>>-----
>>

Lol.....I know
All I was saying is the pattern on that one in the add is nothing like any of the known BEBs I've seen.....
So if it were a BEB in the ad then it was outcrossed somewhere upstream....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Btw....
How are you sure the one in the ad is mocha?
I thought the question from your buddy, Madeline was..... is mocha and beb morph the same.
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Because of the color of the head. I explained it in my other post bellow.
-----

Yeah, I see now. The BEB is usually either banded or striped, but never a Newport, not that there aren't any. One way you can tell for sure the one in the add is not a BEB is by going by the head color. Its head is too dark to be a BEB. Mocha's start off brown, then their body fades out dramatically. Their head doesn't fade out nearly as much, just like the Ghost Eiseni morph.
-----

>>Yeah, I see now. The BEB is usually either banded or striped, but never a Newport, not that there aren't any. One way you can tell for sure the one in the add is not a BEB is by going by the head color. Its head is too dark to be a BEB. Mocha's start off brown, then their body fades out dramatically. Their head doesn't fade out nearly as much, just like the Ghost Eiseni morph.
>>-----

Thanks for that explanation.
I wish I had "snake funds" available....LOL
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>>>Yeah, I see now. The BEB is usually either banded or striped, but never a Newport, not that there aren't any. One way you can tell for sure the one in the add is not a BEB is by going by the head color. Its head is too dark to be a BEB. Mocha's start off brown, then their body fades out dramatically. Their head doesn't fade out nearly as much, just like the Ghost Eiseni morph.
>>>>-----
>>
>>
>>Thanks for that explanation.
>>I wish I had "snake funds" available....LOL
>>-----
>>John Lassiter
>>Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>
>>
-----

About the BEB. Is it possible that this morph was inbreed so much that it became genetically unhealthy so to speak? When inquiring to the original breeder about purchasing some, he informed me that if and when I did find any,I should out cross them to others from the same locality. I strongly believe he saw the flaws of this morph. Maybe that is why this project is all but gone? Hopefully not.

I sort of asked this same question earlier and the answer was, no, they were just fine. I really have no idea of anything, because I've never had them before and you really don't hear much about them on line. No one ever posts blue eyed blonds here, or pictures of breeding them. Nothing, except a few of Johns pictures. You'd think they would be more popular. I think the price Vivid was asking for was to high.
-----

Is the SD striped hypo you have on your site a striped mocha? And would breeding a banded mocha to a striped normal possibly yield a striped mocha? Again the newbie questions.

>>Is the SD striped hypo you have on your site a striped mocha? And would breeding a banded mocha to a striped normal possibly yield a striped mocha? Again the newbie questions.

There's two different striped hypos there....

...and the second one is definitely not a Mocha. The first one has a really bright flash on it, so its hard to say, but it doesn't look like a Mocha adult. It could be a young one. As far as your second question, I don't know how the Mocha trait is inherited. I don't know if its even considered a hypo, even though its lighter than a lot of hypos. It just seems like it dramatically fades out for some reason. You'll have to do some experimenting to find out. When you breed it, hold back the lightest baby and see how it turns out. Take pictures of all the babies and document everything the best you can, so you can look back on your records. My records have come in very handy for me. I'm still experimenting and learning with the Grease kings and scrambled banded Newport.
-----

What a BEAUTY!.....and of course, killer pics as well my friend!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks a lot, Doug! Finally got my shipment of mice and was able to feed him and my other holdback for the first time last night. I'm relieved they both ate without any problems.
-----