Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need some help from you experts. I had two snow corns in the same cage for over a year now. Both snakes were over two years old. They were a little small for their age, but not severly. One stopped eating for about a month and then died. Then about 1 1/2 weeks later the other one died. After the first died I scrubbed the cage and water bowl and changed the bedding. Anyone have any ideas? Should I be worried about my other snakes? Thanks in advance for any help. I am very worried right now. I only oddity I have is those darn little flies that look like fruit flies. Could these be spreading some sort of virus?

tom

. . in lieu of having more information, it's impossible to give you an accurate diagnosis since keeping two snakes together isn't sufficient to cause death in itself.

If these are the first two snakes you have that mysteriously died, you DO have reason to be nervous. Phorid or carion flies are carriers of everything. Of course, this means carriers of something bad. They feed on the part of waste and/or regurgitations that carry all the "nasties" of the animal world. Namely, but not limited to shoughed parasites and their ooycists. When the flies feast on this mess, they pick these up and even if they're not intermediary hosts for the parasite, they can transport the problem to the next cage and create a potential for contamination.

It's time for you to consider a qualified reptile vet. Even a dog and pony vet can tell you what you're dealing with and recommend treatment. If you refrigerated (not froze) one of the dead animals, get it to a vet immediately and have it examined. If that wasn't done, get a fresh stool sample from one of the other snakes for them to examine.

Again, without more environmental data, it's impossible to say what caused this, but "yes" you should be concerned if not worried.

Best wishes,

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

n/p

I'm not one of the esteemed individuals you asked for but I can answer this question. With out having a necropsy performed there is no way to tell what your snakes died from. Those little fruit flys can transmit disease, you need to get rid of them, I'd use a peststrip. If any of your other snakes become ill take them to a vet. IMHO

Tim

Tom,
Just wanted to add something else that may be a good idea...
Get rid of your water bowls and other cage items that were in the enclosure of the two corns that died in. I had stuff I used for a few boas that died mysteriously and threw it all away after they died. Good thing too since they died from parasites transmitted from the wild caught parents. I say, in my opinion, why even risk it using the same stuff later down the road. It is less expensive to buy new stuff for any future snakes.

Also, you might want to switch to new substrate. You said you use some type of bedding. Maybe use paper towels or newspaper until you figure out what those bugs are. If anything, new substrate may enable you to clean more easily and more frequently so you can monitor any potential problems as they arise.

One more thing, if you decide (down the road) to get any more snakes/corns...make sure you quarantine them from your current collection.

GOOD LUCK! and let us know how you make out!

(ps....how many other snakes do you have?)
-----
"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

I took the dead snake to the vet today. He said it looked as though he had a blood clot in his heart. Just be be safe we sent off tissue samples to the lab. I will also be bringing in some stool samples.

Just to clarify. I wanted anyones opinion and advice. I just added the (Cathy, Rich, Don) to get their attention. Did not mean to offend. Please feel free to leave advice.

thanks

tom

. . . this is true, it almost certainly has to be a symptom of a condition. The odds of both of them dying from something like this has to be one in a million unless some problem caused it.

I don't mean to slam vets, but it's very hard to determine what caused a neonate corn to die. Even for a reptile expert. If thiis is what might have killed the snake, it was caused by something that you need to discover. Examine your hygene practices and your food sources.

If your husbandry practices are good, continue to keep things clean. I'm not sure you'll ever know what it was, but by keeping things clean, you can limit or prevent recurrence. Did you recently change your mouse supplier OR is it possible that the pinks they recently ate had been thawed at one time prior to the latest feeding event? Overpopulation of bacteria in the prey item could definitely cause shock levels enough to kill. Nenoate corns don't have much of an immune system and certainly don't have enough mass to dilute toxins.

Good luck,

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

Don,

They were not Neonates they were 2 year old snow corns. I'm going to scrub all the rack systems good again. Hope this helps. No, I have not switched rodent supplier. I'm not to confident with this vet though. He asked me if the snake had diahera (sp) or mucus in the poop. He didn't now that corn poop mostly a liquid mess. I guess I'll just clean the cages and wait for the tissue sample results to come back.

I currently use aspen bedding. Do you recommend using anything else right now to make it easier to get all the mess out. I have switched to "poop scooping" as I call it from once a day to three times a day, but the aspen makes it hard to find it all sometimes.

thanks to all for the help

tom

I see you have gotten lots of good advice, so I will just add the best way I have found to control those annoying (and sometimes dangerous) flies.

I use fly bait from the feed store - Golden Maldrin (sp?) or Blue Diamond, or a similar brand. I put it in jar lids on counters in the herp room. It even works better if you wet it somewhat, but then it has to be changed more often. It attracts LOTS of the flies, but probably won't get rid of 100% of them. I have also used black light insect traps with some succss.

Good luck!

thanks cathy