Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've self diagnosed my baby pastel ball python with IBD. He had mites since the date I got him, so I immediately started treatment. Well it affected his shedding so he didn't shed at all. I eventually did get off most of the shed, but I couldn't get the dry shed off his head. So today, I noticed drooling, like saliva. He couldn't flick his tongue, his previous meal is still in the back half of his body without any feces. I tried flipping him on his back, once he couldn't flip over, other times he could. But I just think the signs are to obvious. He was my first morph and I am pretty upset.

He still seemed to have several mites when I tried checking out his head. I believe it's beyond my control now.

So my main concern now is my other 3 pythons. I was careful to quarantine, so he's never been in contact with my other snakes. My 3 snakes are in the hallway, and the infected one is in my room. I typically do have the door closed, but sometimes it's open. His cage is about 30 feet from the nearest cage. Should I be concerned my others could contract it? Will they be okay? I'm very worried for my remaining collection right now, so if anyone has some answers, please help me.

So to compensate for your many lapses in husbandry, you are now going to "self diagnose" your ball python with IBD? What are your qualifications to do so? Are you a doctor of veteranary medicine? Are you the caretaker for hundreds of pythons for decades now? Not only are you not qualified but you dont know what you are talking about and all you will do with your post is panic others who are new to this hobby who have no reason to do so.

Your animal is dehydrated!!!! Not only is it stuck in shed but it has mites. Two signs of poor husbandry that both dehydrate an animal. In humans as well as in reptiles dehydration can cause neurological symptoms. Soak the snake for a couple hours in 1/2" of room temp water. it will shed and it will drown lots of mites. then properly treat the snake and its cage for mites. I would guess that it is having a tough time digesting its food because it is getting cold outside now and you have not compensated with more heat.

Not only is it extremely rare to come accross IBD in a python, but it kills them almost immediately. Hence the rareity. They can not be carriers like boas and have it for years with no symptoms. You need to find somebody, a pet shop person, a snake breeder, a vet, etc, that you can get advice from before you come to a board like this and post such a potentialy inflamatory post.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

I'll clear this up for you.

I got all of the dry shed off about 2 weeks ago except for his head. I've filled his water with fresh water every 2 days. I noticed the bloating about a day after I fed him, and I noticed some strange behavior hence forward, I never said I think he's had IBD for two months. I know how quickly IBD kills in pythons. I may be a younger than most in this hobby, but I know very much about it.

Since the original post, when I stated the original problem, my snake died. I'm pretty sure my diagnosis was correct.

All I'm looking for now, is help to make sure it doesn't get to the rest of my collection.

if your snake had ibd where did it get it from?

if it was bloated it was likely from bad water
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

IBD IS very rare and probably one of the most miss-diagnosed illnesses in novice keepers. Boas carry IBD for a very long time before ever expressing symptoms, once they do... they can still drag on for months if you don't euthanize them. In pythons though, IDB attacks them rapidly, often times in a couple weeks. Animals that have IBD do not eat, if you've ever seen one, they have crazy loss of all motor control. Paramyxovirus behaves in much the same way as IBD does, snakes with paramyxo will usually still feed though.

Are all your snakes pythons or boas? Crotalids are natural carriers of coccidia which can be passed to boas and pythons quite easily.

I'm sorry for your loss, but I also doubt it was IBD. If you want to do it correctly, get rid of the cage and the accessories be sure that you, yourself stay clean and sanitized.

Jeff

I can understand IBD being rare in ball python collections but do you consider it rare in boa collections? I'd love to hear that IBD is now rare in the US boa population but my rather dated info from a study my vet did close to a decade ago was that MOST boas carry IBD. Scares the heck out of me at shows.
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Randy Remington
anyone@snakemorphs.com
www.SnakeMorphs.com
FaceBook.com/SnakeMorphs

I think that a large percentage of carriers and possible carriers were euthenised and/or used for biopsies for diagnosis. But there is no way to know for sure. Without seeing the animals organs you are just guessing. You notice though that mnay many people who bred boa morphs and balls got out of boas, mostly due to fear and partly due to values crashing.
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Evan Stahl Reptiles
www.evanstahl.com

Dehydration can cause bowel issues and the bloating could be caused from rotting food inside. As far as the mucus goes it could have had a RI only way to know for sure is to get a necropsy done.

All righty, now that you have been thoroughly chastised (joking)...

Could you tell us a bit about your environmental conditions?
Humidity range, temperature range (esp. hot spots), substrate, cage size, etc?
What did you use for a mite treatment? Is it possible the snake came with internal parasites as well as the external?
Since some keepers here feel the snake was dehydrated, did you use regular tap water or something special?

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Perhaps if we can help you track down the cause of your snake's illness, be it IBD or something else, we can help you prevent it in the rest of the collection.
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26 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Silver Bullet, 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma, 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 1.0 husband, ?.? Mini-human

This isn't my first BP, I know how to care for them. All the humidity range, hot spot, water was good.

I used destilled water for both misting and his regular water, as I've used for both my other BPs and spotted python for over 2 years now. I changed his water every other day or whenever it got empty before then.

With him gone now, I'm simply treating it as IBD, or anything else that could be spread. I've immeadiately barried and cleaned the cage he was in.

I'd still like to know what anyone elses personal thoughts on what it could have been.

Thanks for any tips everyone.

Can't offer too many options of what it could be if you don't have more information to give, sorry. IBD just suddenly popping up in one snake after 2 months of quarantine seems unlikely though. Mites could be the vector of the disease, but since you said it came WITH the mites (though you do not remember what treatment you used?) it is unlikely it would have just suddenly developed the disease.

There are a variety of compounding factors that could have caused an illness. Treatment by the prior owner including food items, handling, caging, cleaning, and other maintenance; method of shipping/transport to you; specifics of how you treated the stuck shed and mites. There might not be a single cause for the illness. Which is why I asked for details.

More likely causes are impaction, chemical exposure, trauma it received prior to you getting it, internal parasites, possibly even cancer, or any number of things. These should be ruled out before dooming your collection to IBD. Even with great quarantine, IBD is transferred VERY readily to other BPs, as your research has probably shown you.
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26 year old 0.1 from Lincoln, NE
Ball Pythons - 0.1 Silver Bullet, 0.1 Pastel, 1.0 Pastel het Pied, 0.1 Pied, 0.1 Cinn, 1.0 Black Pewter, 1.0 Woma, 0.1 Yellowbelly, 2.1 Normals
Kingsnakes - 1.0 L. m. thayeri, 0.1 L. m. thayeri X L. alterna, 1.0 L. g. californiae
Other - 0.1 Whitesided P. catenifer sayi, 1.0 H. nascicus, ?.? Chrysemys picta, 1.0 husband, ?.? Mini-human

If you already know everything and are not willing to give the others the information they're asking for why even post?
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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
6.40
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

My first thought is that if he had had IBD he probably wouldn't have survived the two weeks or more that you had him. From the story it sounds to me like there might have been an overexposure to some chemical during the treatment of mites and complications thereof - but there was no info given on the method of treatment so obviously it can only be a guess. Probably should send the snake for necropsy for the sake of the rest of your snakes but it sounds like that ship has sailed.
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Tosha

nihil facimus sed id bene facimus

I don't remember the exact name of the mite treatment.

I followed the directions though. I applied it at the most twice a week, within atleast 3 day intervals. I used a qtip under his jaw and used a kleenex up and down the rest of his body.

He was separated from my other snakes, and so far, they seem to be fine.

I've had him for two months, the entire time he's had mites that I couldn't get rid of. So I understand that IBD would have killed him, but isn't it possible he didn't contract IBD until recently? I mean mites are vectors aren't they?

I won't be having a necropsy. I'm treating this as if it could be spread to my other snakes, so I'm doing intensive cleaning of all thing that my passed snake came in contact with.

Well as u said mites can be vectors and transmit diseases throughout your collection. What are failing to accept is that the other animals in your care if they carried IBD they would have been dead long before he got there. A little school for you, spotted pythons and ball pythons die so quick of IBD that when the disease was prevalent many large breeders would place them in enclosures with boas in order to determine whether or not they carried IBD. When exposed pythons usually died within days not weeks or months. You continue to make a diagnosis of a disease that requires a necropsy to determine and still refuse to even acknowledge that it is probably something else than IBD. Furthermore you state you KNOW how to properly care for the animal but yet in the time you had it you were unable to control the mites and never had improvement of its health and can't even tell us what kind of chemical that you applied to the animal. Heck it could have been that "medicine" that caused the decline.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

The spray I used is "Natural Chemistry: Kills mites on reptiles"