Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found this in north central Alabama. Is it..., what we call a Alabama black snake (kingsnake) Or is it an eastern kingsnake? How can you tell? The two look so similar when they are young. Or is it really the same snake with slightly different markings?

DAVY

Looks like a Speckled X Eastern intergrade... with a little more speckled influence.

Yea, I do see a little of both speckled and eastern in this one, now that I have been goggling them to see what all variations they have. It will be interesting to see what it will look like when it grows up. I plan on keeping this one. Hope I can get it to eat. Any thought on that? He is small.

DAVY

Blacks loose their specks as they mature.Try offering a dead anole in a deli cup.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Do they come small enough? Can I get that at the pet store? Do I need to chop it up? I have never feed a lizord to my snakes before.
DAVY

.

What county was it collected from? It really depends on exactly WHERE in central Alabama. Right in the central area of the state the Black king (L.g.nigra) resides just to the north, and the Speckled king (L.g.holbrooki) to the west and southwest. There is quite a bit of intergradation from three directions, so without knowing exactly where, it is tough to say. The Eastern is a bit further to the east in central Alabama. I see far more holbrooki and/or nigra than any Eastern influence in the snake.

The Black king and Speckled king typically look very similar as hatchlings anyway with both having thin crossbars and speckles. The Blacks will tend to lose alot of this as they mature, but many will still display plenty of patterning, especially if they have intergrade influence.

cheers, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

>>What county was it collected from? It really depends on exactly WHERE in central Alabama. Right in the central area of the state the Black king (L.g.nigra) resides just to the north, and the Speckled king (L.g.holbrooki) to the west and southwest. There is quite a bit of intergradation from three directions, so without knowing exactly where, it is tough to say. The Eastern is a bit further to the east in central Alabama. I see far more holbrooki and/or nigra than any Eastern influence in the snake.
>>
>> The Black king and Speckled king typically look very similar as hatchlings anyway with both having thin crossbars and speckles. The Blacks will tend to lose alot of this as they mature, but many will still display plenty of patterning, especially if they have intergrade influence.

What he said....
Looks to be holbrooki/nigra not holbrooki/getula.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

It was found in Cullman County just west of the City of Cullman.

Cool,.....Cullman is in more Black king (L.g.nigra) territory, but my range map does depict an odd thin "finger" of possible holbrooki intergradation from the west on each side of the river in the next counties a good ways north of Cullman and into the west. With that said though, Cullman, and north, south and east of Cullman are still 100% nigra as well from the center of Alabama (where all three ssp.intergrade) and also pure Black (nigra) all the way up through Tennessee and into the southern half of Indiana.

In other words, I'd say it's a juvenile patterned L.g.nigra, and will likely get more solid black as it matures...

Here is one from Lawrence County in the next county diagonally from you.......you can JUST barely make out a vague pattern from when it was a juvenile.......a sweet looking animal!..

cheers, ~Doug

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

.......not too far to the southeast from you.

-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Cool melanistic holbrooki.....J/K....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

Thanks for the info. It still amazes me how snakes stay in there own territory all these years. I will be happy if I can just get it to eat.

DAVY

>>Do they come small enough? Can I get that at the pet store? Do I need to chop it up? I have never feed a lizord to my snakes before.
>>DAVY

I mentioned that because I had 3 baby Holbrooki hatch out this year, and they gave me fits trying to get them to eat. They finally got them to take dead baby anoles. They refused the live ones. I think the lizard speeding about inside the deli cups spooked the snakes. So when I offered a freshly killed one, they ate. If you don't have anoles try any lizard you can find locally.
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Disclaimer: I do keep several snakes in pairs, and some in groups. However I realize that things can go wrong, and I have to keep a close eye on those groups, to be sure they are not being adversely affected by these living conditions. Also if one happens to eat it's cagemate, it is 100% my fault, and I know the risks in advance!

What's wrong with using CAUTION?!?!?!
King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?
~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com

Thanks, I bought an Anole at my local pet store. The only one they had at the time. When I got home I realized that it was two big for this little guy. Oh by the way my pet store is crappie, to say the least. The best pet store is an hour away in Birmingham. Ed's Pet World. I will get some from him in a couple of days.
DAVY

Davy,......humanely kill the anole very quickly, and then grind up the body up as finely and best you can (minced anole). Then put it in little individual servings to put in the freezer. Take the same one out, smear the stuff all over an appropriately-sized F/T pinkie, and refreeze it as needed. The one lizard will then last you MANY scentings this way. Just make sure you put the minced lizard servings in something like the very corner of a plastic bag and tie it off real good with a twist-tie to keep it from getting freezer burnt from being exposed to the cold air.

good luck!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

Thanks I will try that. I just have to sneak the magic bullet out of the kitchen without my wife knowing it,. LOL

DAVY

>>Thanks I will try that. I just have to sneak the magic bullet out of the kitchen without my wife knowing it,. LOL
>>
>>DAVY

When she does find out....and she will, the magic bullet will become yours. I know from experience.......LOL
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

"When she does find out....and she will, the magic bullet will become yours. I know from experience"

Yes, and when the women do find out, they usually want to swap it out for a REAL "bullet" and use it...

~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

That is funny, cause that is the same response that I got from her when I mentioned, minced lizard and magic bullet in the same sentence. Guess I will have to do it the old fashion way. Cheese grader.

DAVY

Well, that's better than the alternative. Momma bird method. LOL

......that had me crackin' the hell up man!. I can just picture you feeding the hatchling like that!..LMAO!!!

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com