Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Good afternoon folks. I just made the discovery that Acanthosaura are NOT on the exempt list for my state. Meaning, I need to obtain a permit if I want to keep and breed them ethically, and within the boundaries of the law.

I am usually well aware of what is, and is not restricted - except apparently this time. I went to the NE Reptile Show in Manchester, with the sole intention of trying to find a group of dragons - and thankfully, one vendor had a large but relatively obscured display full of WC juvs and adults.

My plan is to apply for the permit. The last time I obtained a permit was to keep varanids, almost 2 decades ago - and was approved at the time. So, I'm hopeful. Unfortunately, I don't know what the climate for permits has become. I hope to correspond with the local herp society, and get a sense for things.

Keeping in mind the worse case scenario, I'm hoping one of you may have room for a few more dragons if I don't succeed. I certainly don't like the appearance of irresponsibility on my part - I've been keeping herps off an on for over 30 years. If anything, as a cautionary note to any other folks out there thinking about picking up that exotic new reptile - make sure you know the regulations of your state prior to bringing the animal home.

As for my trio, well, I'm taking a much more laid back attitude. I'm still not really sure about my little female. But, I've stopped poking her belly. Still not eating, which has me a bit concerned, and her color has remained dark for the last several days. I would much rather have happy, established, well adjusted dragons for now. Eventually, I'd love to know that I've provided an environment in which they will breed. Their second Panacur treatment is on deck for this week, and I have flagyl waiting in the wings beyond that if necessary - following another fecal.

n/p
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

More than likely, the guidelines are going to be present in the states general laws - at least that is the case in MA. However, that can be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Best bet Elizabeth, is either to contact the State Division of Fish and Wildlife and see if they can point you to any regulations pertaining to the keeping of exotics, reptiles in particular. Another source that is likely to have this information is a local herp society.

The blanket coverage in the state of MA, is that if the animal is not listed at all - then it requires a permit. This appears to be the case with Acanthosaura. Often there is no rhyme or reason to it. For instance, Uromastyx and Frilled Dragons(which are bred regularly in captivity) require a permit, but Sail-Fin Lizards, Hydrosaurus sp. do not. I can't even remember the last time I have seen a sailfin lizard offered for sale - and know of absolutely no captive propagation. Acanthosaura appears to have been obscure enough at the time, that they were given no consideration on the exempt list.

and as long as it is not poisinous (I know spelling), it is legal, but The HUGE snakes are Illegal as well (but they only enforce that one if someone complains)
I M gonna talk to someone MORE in the know this weekend
and I breeding them if I bought Erowen pregnant unbeknownst to myself at the time? (provided of course the eggs are fertile)

Oh and...
The vets office called to answer some questions about the Pancur doses (25mg/kg/weekX4wks) and strength (100mg per ML)
and the lady who called and answered all the questions asked me WHAT an MHD was, so I directed her to FroggieB's site, and offered to show her my animals anytime she wanted (and when I was home)

I M gonna go check on my hole diggin lady Erowen
TTYL
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

I sure hope you get the permit without a glitch. It would be a shame for you to have to get rid of your trio. Besides, I have more requests for babies than what I can supply so we need more breeders.

I would guess that Acanthosaura never made the list because it wasn't common enough, but then, who would think that the sail fin would be on the list either! I do hope that as we are successful breeding new species that they will consider updating their lists. I'm really tired of seeing nothing but bearded dragons at the herp shows, not that I don't think they are cool, but there are other lizards that are equally cool!

I know that I have my hands more than full with the animals I have but hopefully if it comes down to it you will find someone to help you out.

Keep us updated and get that permit application in!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Searched high and low for a contact phone number for DFW, found one, and it didn't work ...
So, I sent an email to Dept of Fish and Wildlife requesting that they mail the forms to me - or at least respond and let me know if I need to go into Boston to pick them up. I of course, don't live close to Boston.

For me, it's the principle. Fundamentally, I could probably keep, breed, and sell Acanthosaura for the next decade and local government would never be the wiser. If I hadn't sought out the list after not looking at it for several years - I wouldn't know that Acanthosaura are restricted. But, I try to hold up that flag of being a responsible reptile owner - instead of being lumped into the stereotypical category of 'flakes with snakes'. I follow the Herp Law/CITES forum here as well. There are powerful lobbies out there that are happy to paint us as irresponsible flakes.

You're right about the lists Marcia. They were overhauled around 1990 I believe. I was an active member of New England Herp Society at the time, and DFW actually consulted with NEHS - which I found impressive. After more than a decade however, I do believe the lists need to be modified once again. Calotes and Hydrosaurus? I remember seeing Sailfins in pet stores in the eighties - and they were always near death with dehydration. I don't know of anyone keeping them (in the states at least), and never see them in local shops anymore. Although, in my proposal I do plan on identifying Acanthosaura as being very similar to Calotes.

BTW, I did pick up both of the agamid books listed on your site. The TFH book originally published in German is a great species reference. The other "Keeping and Breeding Agamids" is about as general and vague a book on species specific husbandry I have ever seen. Keep MHD's in a 30 gallon aquarium - yikes.

there is a sailfin in the rainforest at the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, NE. I recall seeing it on a trunk in the upper part of the forest one day and it was pretty amaizing. I don't imagine there are any in private collections though!

I agree that most info in books is terribly inadaquate but felt that listing references does show that I did some research and am not just yapping!

Good luck with the permit, I hope you get going with the MHDs without a hitch.
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

LOL
I appreciate the book references and am glad that I have the volume (Manthey and Schuster) that Zoffer used as a springboard for his book
Zoffer does have some great photos.

There is only one up to date source for information on Acanthosaura husbandry. Would you like me to send you the link?