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Aren't these some real "gems"??..(facepalm)
Said to be from.... " Female is a "leonis" thayeri, male is jungle corn amel het anery/hypo.
A great cancer contribution for sure, huh?
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
Upsetting....
The worst part of it all is the fact that one looks like a leonis and to those that don't know any better would think that all of them are Leonis "thayeri"
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
"Upsetting....
The worst part of it all is the fact that one looks like a leonis and to those that don't know any better would think that all of them are Leonis "thayeri"
........precisely!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
Yea but if I crossed them with my speckled kings (that are actually crosses of other stuff that I can't remember), would I get something purple-ish?
I think I could sell a boat load of these if I could just get them purple-ish 
>>Yea but if I crossed them with my speckled kings (that are actually crosses of other stuff that I can't remember), would I get something purple-ish?
>>
>>I think I could sell a boat load of these if I could just get them purple-ish
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Well, they really wouldn't have to be "purple-ish" though, they would likely appeal to most general hobbyists of today as long as you couldn't remember what they were crossed with and you advertised them as something they weren't..
Sad, but true....it extremely disappointing to say the least 
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
you know what i find really neatto about that particular hybrid is the thayeri varieability standing out, i see leonis,msp,etc. i would guess the junglecorn used is getula/corn yet from that pic you see very lil getula/ corn influance, you gotta wonder what the "merestics" are on the clutch between sibs, i had fun when i bred pituophis and elaphe on the "merestics" end no 2 were alike.
fun stuff!
id like to see some of those as adults and wonder how big they will get?
p.s.
i know i mispeled some things. this is to agitate the spelling moniter.
have fun!
keep it reel!
,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
>>you know what i find really neatto about that particular hybrid is the thayeri varieability standing out, i see leonis,msp,etc. i would guess the junglecorn used is getula/corn yet from that pic you see very lil getula/ corn influance, you gotta wonder what the "merestics" are on the clutch between sibs, i had fun when i bred pituophis and elaphe on the "merestics" end no 2 were alike.
>>fun stuff!
>>id like to see some of those as adults and wonder how big they will get?
>>
>>p.s.
>>i know i mispeled some things. this is to agitate the spelling moniter.
>>have fun!
>>keep it reel!
>>,,,,,,,,thomas davis
>>-----
>>Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
The MSP is the one that could pass for a thayeri.....
But, that is without doing scale counts. The phenotypical expression is dominated by thayeri variability. I have heard many say that if they ever wanted to do hybrids that they would use thayeri due to their variability.
They may visually look slightly like thayeri but those of us that know better can see a ton of differences and would know more after scale counts.
>>
>>my website www.barmollysplace.com
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
>>>The MSP is the one that could pass for a thayeri.....
But, that is without doing scale counts. The phenotypical expression is dominated by thayeri variability. I have heard many say that if they ever wanted to do hybrids that they would use thayeri due to their variability.
They may visually look slightly like thayeri but those of us that know better can see a ton of differences and would know more after scale counts
>hi john imho it shouldnt be those of us that know better but imho anyone wanting to undertake breeding ANY sp. or ssp. for "purity" sake should absolutely understand and perform scale counts wether phenotypical expressions from hybridization are evident or not seems awful simple if your that into "purity" dont expect the 25dollar snake in a delicup to be what it is represented as no matter who its from, get real, get and be responsible.
as for thayeri for hybrids im seeing some in my future
im going to san antonio tommorow then pasadena the 17&18th you gonna make either other one?,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
>>>>>The MSP is the one that could pass for a thayeri.....
>>But, that is without doing scale counts. The phenotypical expression is dominated by thayeri variability. I have heard many say that if they ever wanted to do hybrids that they would use thayeri due to their variability.
>>They may visually look slightly like thayeri but those of us that know better can see a ton of differences and would know more after scale counts
>>
>>>hi john imho it shouldnt be those of us that know better but imho anyone wanting to undertake breeding ANY sp. or ssp. for "purity" sake should absolutely understand and perform scale counts wether phenotypical expressions from hybridization are evident or not seems awful simple if your that into "purity" dont expect the 25dollar snake in a delicup to be what it is represented as no matter who its from, get real, get and be responsible.
>>as for thayeri for hybrids im seeing some in my future
>>im going to san antonio tommorow then pasadena the 17&18th you gonna make either other one?,,,,,,,thomas
>>-----
All true Thomas.
I was going to SA but can't make it....we had a funeral to help with 2 weeks ago....
We may make the Pasadena show, don't know yet....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Those things are nasty! hahaha I can't even tell they are hybrids.
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I know,........those mutts are destined to dilute what little authentic stock there still is down the road as well.
You know, just like the TROLL'S mutts will do when people start seeing odd stuff pop out of their authentic stuff and "think" they have new "cutting-edge" morphs...LMFAO!!!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
Hey, everyone has to have some kind of legacy. LMAO
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.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
That is a funny sad truth.
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
>>Those things are nasty! hahaha I can't even tell they are hybrids.
>>-----
>>
I can tell....lol
The msp is visually thayeri. The rest look off.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
"I can tell....lol
The msp is visually thayeri. The rest look off....."
I think we all know that none of that really matters though when they (and their offspring) will inevitably get further bred into more thayeri down the way('cause they sure as hell will), and also labeled as such.
Anyone that knows anything at all about this hobby knows that the famous initial "honest representation" of their hybrid crosses means absolutely nothing later down the road. Tommy will be able to tell you about this in a couple years too when people start producing what they "think" are new floridana, MBK, and splendida morphs, and they will trace their stock directly back to his hybrid project.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
>>"I can tell....lol
>>The msp is visually thayeri. The rest look off....."
>>
>> I think we all know that none of that really matters though when they (and their offspring) will inevitably get further bred into more thayeri down the way('cause they sure as hell will), and also labeled as such.
>>
>> Anyone that knows anything at all about this hobby knows that the famous initial "honest representation" of their hybrid crosses means absolutely nothing later down the road. Tommy will be able to tell you about this in a couple years too when people start producing what they "think" are new floridana, MBK, and splendida morphs, and they will trace their stock directly back to his hybrid project.
I agree but I know many thayeri breeders that will only buy, sell and trade amongst themselves/ourselves. I believe that next to alterna breeders, there is a great group of thayeri breeders that know the lineage/provenance of their animals. I know I wouldn't buy from just any Joe Blow, but The problem mentioned is the fact that somebody will.....translation will be lost accidentally or purposely, then gene pools of snakes we cannot acquire from the wild anymore will be tainted.....that's the sad part....
With getula and US milks we can go get more and start over.....with mexicana we cannot.
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Yeah, but it's sad that anyone would even have to "start over" again in the first place because of people's ignorance and not giving two craps.
People in this hobby today will find a way to ruin a bulldozer with a freakin broom stick.
Anyway though, ya can't fix stupid I guess.
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
You know Doug this subject is a bit sad. This thread/subject by you could have been posted 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, or 20 years ago, or 25 years ago, or 30 years ago. The exact same post. Heck even 35 years ago.
As it was somewhere around 35 years ago that, oh wait, 40 years ago, that crosses made their way into captivity.
It was then the worry about mislabelling(misrepresenting) would have been a concern. But now, I would think everyone knows and understands that all that is out there and has been out there.
It pretty much comes down to this, those that cannot a non local specific animal from a MUTT as you call them, most likely don't care. After all, they are just deli-cup reptiles in the first place.
The real problem is when you start finding these Mutts in nature. Oh wait, to late for that. That actually occurred long before man kept snakes in deli cups. Cheers
Yeah, much too late to give two craps about anything,....right??...so lets endorse and propagate as many mutts as humanly possible to see just how bad we can make things.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
Sir, its not about endorsing or any of that. The actual point is, IT IS WHAT IT IS. There is nothing you can or will about it. You just seem like whining.
What others do is their right to do. Its not like its new. its not like all of a sudden you have to be aware that crosses exsist, they have and are around and been around for many decades.
You and others, that are not fans, should have been aware that crosses happen, and should develop ways to help, like come up with characters that will aid in telling what a mutt is and what isn't. But all you do is whine. how about doing something so that those that do not want MUTTS, can tell a mutt from a non-mutt.
As far as being a field herper, about 95% of what I see posted here are MUTTS. What is commonly bred and collected here are morphs. And a morph is a morph is a mutt, a hybrid, etc.
On the otherhand, I love all of it IN CATIVITY.
Its just so surprising that you act like this just occured. Cheers
"Its just so surprising that you act like this just occured"
What I find really odd (but not so surprising) is that you dream up and fabricate that I think it "just occurred"...LOL!!
See, if it "just occured", then they wouldn't be literally EVERYWHERE, now WOULD THEY?...Mr. Einstein!
I would strongly suggest that you stick with lizards, maybe you make better sense in that area, but who knows. For claiming to be so much more intelligent than everyone else, you fail very miserably at even picking up on the most obvious...
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
>>>You just seem like whining.
ahahahahahahaaahahahaaAAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAA
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
It even has a convenient little "pull-out" growth chart incremented in nanometers that will measure your I.Q. ....
I hope it's not too advanced for you...
Merry Christmas Tommy!
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
thats awsome doug thanks man you had best have it in hand to directly hand it to me the next time we meet...... or else!
i cant wait!
,,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
You would have to actually leave Texas for that, bud.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Obama 2012
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
Not to worry. I'll give you something real good, just don't expect it to be the children's activity book that I just gave you for an early Christmas present. It will be something that you really, really need.
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
oooooo00000OOOOOO
i love it when you talk like that douglas, i will be lookin foward to it, bro
,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Some look a little aberrant and maybe some of the head patterns are not right, but I definitely could have been fooled into buying these for you for Christmas this year. lol
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>>Some look a little aberrant and maybe some of the head patterns are not right, but I definitely could have been fooled into buying these for you for Christmas this year. lol
>>-----
>>
Thanks Ross for thinking about me but no thanks on these....lol
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Don't knock it till you try it. Breed two together and you might hatch a Corn snake and Cal king in the same clutch. lol
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Doug, I have an indigo snake that would love to meet that "clutch of gems"!
"Doug, I have an indigo snake that would love to meet that "clutch of gems"!"
For sure Tim!
It's too bad that many snakes themselves have to pay the price for the PERSONS blatant carelessness and ignorance regarding other folks animals in the hobby. These people obviously never give a rat's A$$ about what their snake's are ever bred with later on......
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
Yeah, lots of folks in the hobby think deli cups are natural habitat for snakes. It is really too bad because they miss out on the most interesting part of this hobby, the natural history of these fascinating animals. They have a right to mix whatever species they want, but it is really short-sighted. Most of the guys who indiscriminately mix species are not rocket scientists though, are they?
"Yeah, lots of folks in the hobby think deli cups are natural habitat for snakes. It is really too bad because they miss out on the most interesting part of this hobby, the natural history of these fascinating animals. They have a right to mix whatever species they want, but it is really short-sighted. Most of the guys who indiscriminately mix species are not rocket scientists though, are they?"
That was VERY accurate and well-said stated, Tim....
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
That last sentence says it all, just look at the response called "COOL"', it speaks volumes.
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Gerard
"Sleep my friend and you will see, your dreams are my reality. "
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Very sad, and John L., and everyone who cares about pure Thayeri, have a right to be irritated and somewhat saddened as well.
The selfish individual who produced those is not a herper. Real herpers do not do such things, waste precious breathing time in life contributing to the degradation of our beloved hobby, or put well meaning other hobbyist's in a genetically harmful way, for good money they saved up and spent, on what they THOUGHT they were getting, but then, later on, finding out that they were lied to. Maybe not directly from the breeder, but the misrepresentation of the selfish individual, who again, wasted precious breathing time in life, committing such biological perversion.
This can be attributed to the term known as " HAH! "
Hybridizers
Ain't
Herpers
A truth that is based on the reality of the big picture.
Alas, such is life, and such is humans.
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Genesis 1:1
I have a hard time believing this one......
You have 100% checked out the parents/line/breeder of these?
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!
"I have a hard time believing this one......
You have 100% checked out the parents/line/breeder of these?"
No, I have not checked out anything about them whatsoever, nor am I going to. I am going solely by what they are said to be. You know,..like a huge portion of this hobby typically does.
I forgot to also add that they are part ruthveni too though, so I apologize for that misrepresentation. I would guess that some of that would have happened anyway down the road..LOL!
The title itself is "thayeri/ruthveni/corn" Here is what the person stated, mispellings and all (copied and pasted just as is)
"My 1st thayeri hybrid. Fermale "leonis" tahyeri, male tricolord jc amel het.anery/hypo"
My apologies for forgetting about the ruthveni portion mentioned. That would likely be bound to happen anyway as they were sold and bred to others down the road I would imagine.
I am guessing Cal. king is also in there too because of the reference to "jc", but who knows.....
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com
>>I have a hard time believing this one......
>>You have 100% checked out the parents/line/breeder of these?
>>:Mark
>>-----
>>Surrender Dorothy!
>>
>>crimsonking.piczo.com/
Why Mark?
I only see one that could pass as a thayeri....the rest look visually like mutts....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
haha..I guess you missed my point that anyone can call anything whatever they want...and do! So why should/would I believe the fact (?) that they are hybrids any more than I might believe they are not?
See? That's what has happened since the beginning of the hobby and the advent of crosses/hybridization....
Ya just never know for sure anymore.....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!
>>haha..I guess you missed my point that anyone can call anything whatever they want...and do! So why should/would I believe the fact (?) that they are hybrids any more than I might believe they are not?
>>See? That's what has happened since the beginning of the hobby and the advent of crosses/hybridization....
>>Ya just never know for sure anymore.....
>>
I understand your point now.
We try to deter from that by trading or buying amongst ourselves.....
I know I could get an animal from you Mark and it wouldnt be a hybrid.
I only buy from a handful or so of breeders in the nation for this reason and you're one of them....lol
With all these hybrids running around and all of the taxonomical controversy lately we will all probably have to adopt the passion the alterna-heads have about locality.....
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John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
As much as I love all snakes....
these should probably become getula food...
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