Reptile & Amphibian Forums

if u breed a onyx male to a normal female ,can u produce a onyx.or do get black pastels and het reds only.thanks

I am fairly sure the onyx in a dbl codom and should be able to recreate itself just like a pewter or pastel mojave.
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Tim Johnson
Royal Morphz
626-320-9297

The consensus so far is that they are allelic, and act like a super, so they will only throw black pastels or het reds.

More info will be needed as people breed them.

Does it actually have to be a dbl co-Dom or could it be any co-Dom morph that can reproduce itself along with another trait. In the case of a bumble bee it can reproduce itself and the spider trait is dominant. Is it the co-Dom gene that allows this? Meaning that with a bumble bee a pastel can be past along with the pinstripe or spider gene from just one of the parents and in the case of the spinner the spider and pinstripe gene can not both be past from just one animal? (Not sure if the second example was correct or not) Or is it more complicated than that as far are which alleles they attach to and some are compatible and some aren't?
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www.seeversreptiles.com
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1.1 Spider Ball Python
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pastel Ball Python
0.3 Het for Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pinstripe Ball Python
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python
1.0 Hypo Ball Python
1.0 Lesser Ball Python
0.1 Mojave Ball Python
0.2 Het for Piebald Ball Python
0.2 Normal Ball Python
0.2 Het for Axanthic Ball Python
0.1 Axanthic Ball Python
1.0 Piebald

In theory you'd get 50% black pastels and 50% het reds. No normals or more onyx produced if you bred onyx to normal.

I'm not sure at all what an onyx is except from what I've been reading in this thread, but I can see its het red and black pastel gene. Wouldn't the squares go like this?

If this is the case I don't understand why the onyx could throw normals
Black Pastel x Het Red
25% Onyx
25% het red
25% black pastel
25% normal
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www.seeversreptiles.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
1.1 Spider Ball Python
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pastel Ball Python
0.3 Het for Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pinstripe Ball Python
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python
1.0 Hypo Ball Python
1.0 Lesser Ball Python
0.1 Mojave Ball Python
0.2 Het for Piebald Ball Python
0.2 Normal Ball Python
0.2 Het for Axanthic Ball Python
0.1 Axanthic Ball Python
1.0 Piebald

The Theory is that the Het Red, Lori, Green Pastel, Black Pastel, Cinny and possibly others act as a super form. This is similar to the lucy complex and the Yellowbelly complex.

As I have not seen evedince of the test breedings to prove this, Amir (Yellowbellyball) has stated this is the way it works...
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Don Antiel
www.specialtyreptile.com

So does that mean that a Mojave/Lesser BEL will (in theory) only produce Mojave and Lessers when bred to a normal?
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www.seeversreptiles.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
1.1 Spider Ball Python
1.0 Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pastel Ball Python
0.3 Het for Albino Ball Python
0.1 Pinstripe Ball Python
0.1 Bumble Bee Ball Python
1.0 Hypo Ball Python
1.0 Lesser Ball Python
0.1 Mojave Ball Python
0.2 Het for Piebald Ball Python
0.2 Normal Ball Python
0.2 Het for Axanthic Ball Python
0.1 Axanthic Ball Python
1.0 Piebald

Yes, a Mojave/Lesser will produce only Mojaves and Lesser when paired to a Normal

An Onyx x Normal should (in theory) produce this:

25% 1/4 Normal
25% 1/4 Het Red Axanthic
25% 1/4 Black Pastel
25% 1/4 Onyx Ball

Loris, Green Pastels, Black Pastels, Het Red Axanthics, Cinnys might be alleles, but their "Super" forms are different in each combination...not the same as with the BEL Complex (Mojaves, Lessers, Butters, Het Russos). It's more like the Mojave-Phamtom-Sulfur group IMHO
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