Reptile & Amphibian Forums

FR wrote:
"I still have one question, why would a person have some of the most beautiful snakes on earth(some of these morphs are) and keep them where you cannot SEE them."

Frank, what makes you believe we keep them where we can not SEE them? I do not understand your question or what this question is based on. I said it in a different thread. I see my snakes daily. Is this an attempted attack on a style of keeping that you CLAIM to have founded yet do not agree with?

While we are asking questions here. Can YOU answer this one?

FR wrote:
"As you can tell I am a bit new to hogs. Thanks"

And then

FR wrote:
"I have bred three types of hogs, easterns, pygmys and mexicans"

So, which is it? Are you new to hognose snakes or have you kept and bred 3 different species of them? 2 of which are not often bred in captivity and do take a level of experience to keep alive in captivity.

Why are you so inconsistant?

I really tried to look past the differences we have but again, as usual, your ego and crappy way of dealing with others has gotten in the way again.

Way to go man!

I have no idea why you(you guys) take everything as an attack.

As I mentioned, I am new to hogs, on a current level. End of story.

As I attempt to catch up to what is going on currently, I have not found the information that interests ME. As I mentioned. We can be different, without everything said, being some manner of attack.

I do not intend to do what your doing, nor am I here to judge what your doing. Whatever your doing is great for you.

The information that interests me is information based on Hogs, and not necessarily interested in what hogs do in smaller cages. I am interested in what they choose to do when they have choices, not what we as keepers choose to give them. And its not about whats right or wrong. its simply what I am interested in.

If you have that type of information, then offer it or not, its your choice.

If you don't have that type information, then don't respond.

If what I am looking for is different then normal for here, so what, its not an attack on others.

Or if I ask questions not in line with what you do. Its not about you. Your welcome to do what you want.

The understanding and keeping methods of colubrids cannot be compared to that of varanids. In the varanid world, there is a giant gape of understanding and related results. There are only a handful of keepers in the world have taken any species to generations. Muchless line breeding and morphs, like done here or with most other colubrids.

Of the tens of thousands of varanids imported each and every year, 99% are dead by the next year.

So the gape of husbandry information and expectatioons is great. So the chances of heated discussions are much greater. With varanids, its life or death, not how to produce many generations or line breed.

With colubrids, that is not the same. Newbies expect to have their captives live and reproduce. Those expectations are easily accomplished by following basic criteria.(recipe)

Colubrids have been bred successfully for decades.

Gregg if you want to talk about additude, look no farther then yourself. You judge everything said, sentence by sentence, how about trying to find out someones intend.

You wonder why no one posts here, its simple, you guys made it that way. And its been dead for a long time, I had nothing to do with it.

I am not into herps or hogs for the same reasons as you, nor do I want to do what your doing.

Also, I have said nothing against you or Troy, I stated what I am interested in, PERIOD. I stated that so I can recieve replys that work for me. I want replys that help me with what I want to do. Gregg, its not about you. And Troy its not about you either.

What the heck are you guys afraid of? That I will change things, naw, I am not interested in that. I just want to learn from these snakes and have fun. Have you lost that ability? If you have I am sorry for you.

So heres a REAL question, are fall copulations important? Cheers

Frank,

I asked some questions a long time ago. One fellow replied that he was keeping hogs using overhead heat sources, because of their diurnal habits. He used a burrow-able substrate so they could also go "underground" but still be under the heat source. He said they need 95-100 deg at one end, and ideally the 60s and 70s on the cool side, which is only achievable if the cage is large enough and the room temp stays reasonably cool, or the floor is cool and the cage rests on it.

Aside from that, I think the keeping of hogs follows the 82 deg rack recipe for the most part, because results are deemed good enough. And the hog hobby is one big race to produce more varied multi-morphs, so not many want to deviate from what they are doing.

I think you are the guy to test things out. Please post results from time to time. This stuff is interesting. Wish I could, but I can't these days. I was shocked at your earthworm comment, but I guess folks have used earthworms as scent to get babies started, so it makes sense. Adults too?

Thank you so much. This is what I was looking for.

So far, I have provided a range from the low sixties to aprox 100F. They can get to heat undercover and basking.

So far, they pick low 70s at night and 81f in the day. These are normally under cover. But a few times the female has come out to bask under the lite. Unfortunately, I could not record her temps as she leaves when she sees me. Interference call, five yards.

I plan on using dark heat at some point. And a real burrowing substrate at some point.

They do watch me if I am not watching them, and all the male does is attempt to copulate with the female.

I am sorry if I offend folks, but somethings I take as normal, may not be normal to others. For instance, with colubrids and crots. Its easy to tell when a female becomes receptive. They develop internal body fat, as that occurs, the females start to become receptive(clocal gapes for the male) Within a few days, that fat is converted into the "string of pearls" that is easily palpated. Once this occurs, females are in the middle of their receptive period. Once copulation occurs, a cloaca plug is formed, then the ovum enlarge. Once that occurs, the female is no longer receptive.

That is normal for most snakes.

With crots, they copulate both in the fall in the spring. Oddly enough, females can be found mid winter with ovum, So fall breedings can be important, yet, other individuals, form ovum in the spring and copulate in the spring. Here, spring copulation is important.

What do hogs do???? does anyone know? So far, my female is not receptive and has not formed ovum(string of pearls)

In the field, the hogs without question were either paired up, or were returning to their mates(hopefully) Which is normal with many colubrids.

Anyway, that is what I have seen so far, but as mentioned, I am just begining.

Thanks so much and I hope it works out with these great snakes.

I do some tracking and lately outside activity(feeding) is way down, but there is some activity by burrows. I will attempt to show some pics soon. Cheers

Frank,
That is the information I have been waiting to see you post. Thats how you do it man. That is valuable stuff.

You can get the gradients you talk about in a rack. We do it here and I know a few other breeders who do so as well. Although I do not see a reason to have a cool spot lower than the mid to high 70's.

I agree with your natural way of keeping Frank. There is no question that it works and can be better for the animal in some cases. With hogs, I have not seen a difference in activity, feeding, breeding, or any other aspect. We have a few set up similarly to the way we keep our varanids but the hot spot is a bit lower. No need to offer a hot spot of 130 plus degrees to a colubrid. It is cool to see them burrow in deep natural substrate, but truth is, they do not hide often at all. They are usually out and about all day constantly moving between heat gradients.

The temps I posted are for non-feeding individuals and not reproductive(ovum to enlarged ovum) So I would not expect it to be very high.

Cool temps is very very important, not for hibernation(brumation) but for conserving energy. Which all reptiles do.

An example would be, in nature where they can and do drop their body temps, they can make energy go many times farther.

Some adults we watch may only feed 5 to 8 times a season and reproduce, gain weight and grow.

Thursday, I found a neonate Hog, with a large food bolus, at 48F degrees and the night time low was about 32F. It was active, moving and digesting food.

By allowing cool choices in captivity, you can feed less and gain more. In other words, they are not wasting energy.

Back to that neonate, It was moving to a hot basking area, where i could breakdown that bolus(lizard) in a short time, then move back to cool temps.

In most cases if we fed a neonate a large meal and kept it at low temps, it would reguritate. Or feed very large meals at keep them at 82F, the same would occur. higher and lower temps are utilized for specific reasons.

The problem with snakes is much like varanids, the temps must be usable, that is, something that individual(species) understands how to use.

Much like varanids, if the substrate is not suitable, then they do not burrow.

As I am new to hogs, I am still looking at that type of situation. It appears they do open burrows by digging, but I am not sure they create their own burrows. Please understand, that is not to say they can't, because they obviously do dig their own in some cases. But most of what I have seen for far is modifiying other animals burrows. SO FAR, hahahahahahahahaha

I will get some pics of that neonate, as soon as I get my camera back, I left it in Rodeo NM. Cheers