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How large are your big MALES?

jfmoore Oct 06, 2003 04:40 PM

I guess it’s natural that really large females are prized on this forum. As well, folks are always asking, in essence, what’s the smallest a male can be and still produce sperm.

I was cleaning the cage of one of my males yesterday and checked his record card, thinking he still looked rather scrawny even though he had resumed feeding after his usual enthusiastic breeding performances last spring. Despite the fact that I think he is a bit thin, I was surprised at how large he really is – 3480 grams and approximately 63 inches long. I checked another long-term captive and found him to be 2600 grams and approximately 57 inches.

Large male size may be important in the wild, but I can’t believe it confers any benefits in a captive breeding situation. Nevertheless, I’m curious - how big are some of YOUR male ball pythons?

-Joan

Replies (7)

apeilia Oct 06, 2003 05:24 PM

My biggest male isn't even close to that. He's 7 years old, around 1500g (the maximum capacity of my scale) and about 4 ft. I wonder if not feeding well when they are young affects their final size? He was loaded with mites when I got him as a baby and it took me a few months to completely get rid of them...

Christy Talbert Oct 06, 2003 05:28 PM

Hi there Joan,

Do you use this male for breeding? If so, do you find him an eager breeder (as in he will breed just about anything, just about anytime), or is he lazy and only has a few copulations a season? I have been cautioned about letting my males get big because they may lose their drive. Have you noticed his breeding drive decrease as he has grown?

Thanks, Christy

jfmoore Oct 07, 2003 04:52 PM

Hi Christy –

I would distinguish between “big” and “fat.” But, then, I’ve never had a fat adult male ball python. For that matter, I can’t recall ever seeing one. Can anyone? Key word here is adult. Both of the males I referred to are actually quite slim-looking. And I consider their lengths of 57 and 63 inches well within normal ranges for older animals – not at all large, really.

Of the two males I mentioned, the larger (sometimes referred to as Son of Sam) is seemingly up for any reproductive challenge ANY time of the year. Introduce a female and he’ll get busy; introduce a male (which I don’t do any more) and he’ll go into combat mode (he’s a fighter AND a lover!). He’s actually almost too aggressive for a captive situation, in my opinion. I have to make sure he is introduced to females’ cages which haven’t had any males in them recently because the scent triggers combat. Regardless, at the height of the breeding season, most contacts against his body (even, say, a hide box he crawls against) can result in violent shoving and thrashing. So of necessity, his “love nests” are bare cages devoid of any cage furniture, even (especially) water bowls. And if the females don’t just lie still, they can get flung about the cage. I guess, bottom line, its all about domination.

Other male ball pythons I’ve had just seem to go about their reproductive business hidden away in hides or under paper substrate without such a spectacular display. So unless one peeks in on them and verifies that intromission did indeed occur, one might assume they’re not holding up their end of the deal if no eggs result, when the lack of egg production could be due to other factors.

All of my adult ball pythons are offered a lot of food outside of the breeding season. They regulate their own intake within this window. I, too, had heard the opinions that larger males = decreased reproductive drive. It sounds plausible, especially for boids, and I have wondered if recent depression of my blood python output is the result of overfeeding. But I’ve just never been able to overfeed adult ball pythons! And, if anything, I think their reproductive competence increases with increasing age and size. Although maybe its just the result of that good old teacher, experience.

-Joan

Rich_Crowley Oct 07, 2003 07:51 AM

Hi Joan,
My largest is 2,000g and it has only been recently I have begun feeding him like my females (x-large rats). His interest has not changed and he will copulate whenever placed with a female at any time of the year.

See you this weekend? I will be at the Tinley Show on Saturday.

Later, Rich

jsmallwood Oct 07, 2003 09:44 AM

how old is that male?

Rich_Crowley Oct 07, 2003 01:25 PM

That was something I picked up from animal control. I have had it for 4 years and it was a juvenile when I got it. The picture is about 2 years old.

jsmallwood Oct 07, 2003 01:35 PM

thats cool. my ball is about 22" and i guess around 300g (no scale) and i am just trying to figure out how quickly they grow.

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