Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone thanks in advance for any advice. I posted this on herp health and breeding but no response.

I bought a baby Florida pine from a breeder at a show recently, and although it would eat, it would regurge/throw up everything within a couple of days. I took it back to the breeder and exchanged it. Now the new one is regurgitating too. I'm feeding appropriately sized mice, both pre-killed or live, whichever they prefer. I've even tried extra small pinkies. Still, they throw up everything. I've tried playing with the temperature as well. Still regurging

Any suggestions or reason why? I was thinking I might try putting it into a short brumation period and see if it triggers its appetite. I'm at a loss here and pretty sure this thing is gonna die.
Thanks
Jason

How warm are the temps you are keeping your pine snake? Pits can regurge if temps are too high. They seem to do well with 78 to 82.
How many mice are you feeding at one time?
How soon after puking are you feeding the pine snake? Feeding right away will do no good, as it is thought that stomach acids need replenishing and their esophagus may be irritated. Wait 10 days after when a snake pukes, and feed it something very small.
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Genesis 1:1

As Sir William suggests above, temperature can certainly be the villain. Normally a "baby" mutigus can swallow a hopper or larger soon after birth, though that might not be preferred from the outset. You might try a pinkie rat rather than a mouse. With similer food mass but no hair it might be easier to digest. Two snakes are not likely to share a birth defect in the digestive system. It's possible they were exposed early on to intestinal parasites via a shared water bowl contaminated with feces or picked up same from tongue flicking in dirty substrate. That would be premature to assume at this point but file away the thought. Keep us posted...

I'm thinking on flagellates.

Thank you everyone. The temp is normal and I have offered food items in different sizes. I think internal parasites could be the problem.

Let me ask again, are you waiting a significant amount of time, such as 10 days, before feeding again, or are you feeding the snake soon after it regurges? If you are feeding him soon after the regurges, that is working against the snake, and will eventually kill him, internal parasites or not.

Give us more info.
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Genesis 1:1

Yes I have waited 10 days but never any more than that. I'm going to give her another 10 days and try to feed again. Hopefully I can get some feces so I can have it tested. At this point I doubt there is anything inside her. Im eager to hear any other thoughts or suggestions so let me know, and I will keep you posted. Cheers!!

HAVE ACCESS TO A MICROSCOPE? IT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO EXPRESS/ MASSAGE SOME FLUID FROM THE CLOACA. MADE EVEN EASIER BY FIRST SQUIRTING SOME WATER INWARD. APPLY A DROP OF FLUID TO A SLIDE AND SEAL WITH A COVERSLIP. UNDER MODERATE MAGNIFICATION IF THERE ARE INDEED FLAGELETTES PRESENT YOU'LL THINK THE MINATURE WORLD HAS GONE CRAZY, WITH EVERYTHING DOING A ZIG ZAG AND A JIGGLE AT A MAD PACE. NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE SIMPLE EBB AND FLOW OF ASSORTED SOLIDS AND DITRITIS IN THE SAME DIRECTION WITH NO OBVIOUS LIFE. ANY VET TECH CAN DO THE SAME FOR YOU IF YOU WALK IN WITH A FRESH SAMPLE OR BETTER YET EXTRACT THE SAMPLE IN THE CLINIC LOBBY. I WAS ALLUDING TO THE POSSIBILITY OF PROTOZOANS IN MY 1ST POST... BUT SUGGESTING YOU HOLD OFF. DID YOU EVER TRY A PINKIE RAT? BEYOND THAT TREATMENT FOR PROTOZOANS I.E; "FLAGELETTES" IS STRAIGHT FORWARD. MOST OFTEN APPROACHED WITH METRONIDAZOLE AKA "FLAGYL" YOU CAN GOOGLE THAT AS APPLIES TO REPTILES FOR A DEARTH OF INFO. SCANNING BACK A YEAR OR SO IN THE RATSNAKE FORUM WILL REVEAL A LENGTHY DISCOURSE AS WELL.

Here is a post I just made on the milksnake forum just yesterday that is an extremely similar situation. The OP just stated that he took the snake in to the vet, and it was precisely as I said it likely was....a heavy load of protazoan activity causing the regurges..i.e.,Flagyl to the rescue!!!!..

LINK

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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

What Shadowguy and DMONG said!!
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Genesis 1:1

Thank you everyone for responding. I have the phone number for the Vet who works with the reptiles at the Philadelphia zoo and I will be calling him tomorrow. It just sucks to buy a captive bred reptile from a "reputable" breeder and have this happen. I'll let you all know how it goes. And thanks.

once you've sorted out the parasite/no parasite, i would suggest doing a gut split on the next pinkie feed. i did this with a regurgitating snake and it hastened digestion. the snake will get a little more nutrients even if it regurgitates again.

good luck,

matt