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Black Pine snake questions

KenW Oct 06, 2003 08:05 PM

I have a pair of jungle carpet pythons and a pair of Kenyan sand boas so I have some experience with snakes. I'm interested in black pine snakes as my first colubrid. I love their coloration and size. I've searched the archives of this forum but I still have a few questions:

1. Can a pair be housed together? What do most of you multiple black pine owners do?

2. Are black pine snakes irridescent? Any chance they are as irridescent as indigo snakes?

3. Would a single adult or pair do well in a 4'x2' cage?

4. Are black pines active snakes that prowl their cages or are they snakes that just stay hidden most of the time?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

Replies (8)

Paul Hollander Oct 07, 2003 02:02 PM

>1. Can a pair be housed together? What do most of you multiple black pine owners do?

Some can, and some can't. It depends on the snakes and how well they can handle the stress. Given a choice I'd recommend single cages, especially if the snakes are not close to the same size.

>2. Are black pine snakes irridescent? Any chance they are as irridescent as indigo snakes?

Pituophis have keeled scales; indigos have smooth scales. Iridescence in black pines in minimal, and far, far less than in indigos.

>3. Would a single adult or pair do well in a 4'x2' cage?

Yes.

>4. Are black pines active snakes that prowl their cages or are they snakes that just stay hidden most of the time?

Mine liked to hide out.

Paul Hollander

oldherper Oct 07, 2003 04:13 PM

I agree with Paul on all of his answers..there are people here who keep more of them than I do (I presently have 3.3). They do get out some during the day and prowl...especially when it's close to feeding day. I have always found them to be an interesting, easy to keep and relatively easy to breed species. They are really not a lot different from other Pine Snakes.

kb Oct 07, 2003 05:53 PM

I would agree with the other respondents on your questions, with the exception of housing. A neonate or yearling would be fine, but an adult black pine(5-7')will need a larger enclosure. Physically you can house them in one that small, but it would be less than ideal. Rossi and Rossi recommend an enclosure roughly equal in one dimension (length or width) to the snake's actual length.

oldherper Oct 08, 2003 01:04 PM

Actually, the recommendations I've always heard were that the cage length plus the width should be at least as much as the snake's length. That's kind of a generalization, though. You have to take into account what kind of snake you are housing, it's activity levels, whether it needs more vertical space than horizontal space, etc.

If you are housing a Green Tree Python that is 5 feet long, then a 3 foot by 2 foot cage would be more horizontal space than you need, but if it's only one foot tall, then you are seriously lacking in vertical space. If you are housing 20 foot Burmese Python, how many people can set up cages 15 feet long and 5 feet wide? Or, in your recommendation, 20 feet long? I think a 20 foot Burmese Python will do well in a cage about half that size because they are fairly inactive snakes.

If you are housing something like Indigo Snakes, then you need more floor space. They are active snakes that grow to be 8 feet long or more. The way I do that is if the snake is less between 4 and 6 feet long, I use a cage that is 4' x 18". If they are longer than 6 feet, I use a cage that is 6' x 2'. For neonates, I use plastic shoeboxes and for juveniles smaller than 4', I use a cage that is 2' x 16". That's for Indigo Snakes.

My Black Pines, as a rule, need less space. An adult Black Pine Snake seems to do quite well in a cage 4' x 2'. More space certainly wouldn't hurt them, but I don't think it's a necessity. What seems to be more important for them is the correct thermal gradients and secure hiding areas. Mine tend to spend most of their time in hiding areas and come out to prowl around a little sometimes during the day, but never really get seriously active unless they are hungry and out "hunting". I feed my Pines every 5 to 7 days (5 days for neonates and juveniles, 7 days for adults), usually the day before feeding day they are out cruising around looking for a mouse.

kb Oct 08, 2003 07:45 PM

I have never kept anything larger than an indigo so won't comment on the husbandry needs of boas/pythons. I would agree with your housing specs for neonates and juveniles. To me, keeping a 6-7' pituophis in a 4'x 2' enclosure is sort of like keeping a St Bernard in a 900' square foot apartment. But then, to each his own.

tspuckler Oct 10, 2003 06:40 PM

I have a Black Pine Snake care sheet on my website that will answer many of your questions.

Tim
Third Eye
Third Eye

KenW Oct 11, 2003 09:38 AM

Thanks for the link to your website. It definitely gives me more info about black pines. It was interesting to learn about how black pines subdue pocket gophers in narrow holes. I had two questions about black pines:

1. You mention that Pituophis is far more smelly than ratsnakes and kingsnakes. How do they compare with the smell of pythons? I keep a pair of jungle carpet pythons so I have a small point of reference. Do I have to be worried about the smell lingering in the cage/room even after I clean the feces out of the substrate? Would spot cleaning of the cage be enough?

2. You mention they have quirky behavior and may bite during certain times of the year. I would like to bring this snake to my elementary school classroom. Assuming I handle this animal frequently at home, when I bring an adult snake to the school would I have to be worried about the snake biting students? I know snakes have individual temperaments but what would be your thoughts regarding black pines in general and children.

Thanks for your response in advance.

Kendrick Wong
Sunnyvale, CA

KenW Oct 11, 2003 09:39 AM

This is a very friendly forum. Thanks a lot!

Kendrick Wong
Sunnyvale, CA

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