Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This male was in with a female. Not sure what caused his color to go from red to grayscale.

has anyone ever seen this before? He seems to be acting fine, no behavioral issues.

And yes, I realize the red marks in some of the images aren't good (looks like sores, maybe small amounts of dried blood). Not sure what would have done that. I haven't seen him rubbing against anything. Could the female have done something to him?

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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

said I moved them when I didnt

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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

It kind of looks like a burn...how's he set up?

I don't think it was a burn. All my other snakes are fine (they're in the same rack system) and the female he was in with is fine as well. I use under tank heating via heat tape and control it with both a timer and a dimmer.

I first noticed the color change a week after I introduced him with the female. He also had a crook in this tail and I believed him to have a possible break or fracture there.

This color change occurred in ~2 weeks.
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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

That's what I thought, it's just so odd that he looks "bleached out" like a side or dorsal burn...although if I'd caught the fact that it was a gradual color change it would be obvious it wasn't a burn! Please disregard my post.

Truly bizarre. Poor thing! He does look a bit chewed up. Good luck, you're in good hands with advice from these guys.

BTW, how are the eggs from your small female doing?

All four hatched! 3 weighed in at 7g and one at 6g.

Thanks for asking! I had meant to post pics on here but completely forgot. Lol

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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

The image stuff on this forum really hates me. >.>

Here is the link: http://tinypic.com/r/2134489/6
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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

Sweet

How's your guy doing now? Any further color change?

It looks very similar to a neonate that I had several years ago that was bitten by a clutchmate upon hatching. The bite mark was swollen and appeared very localized until a few weeks in. The skin bubbled lengthwise from halfway down almost to the vent. When he shed, the scales looked very similar to this and eventually he lost the scales completely and the scar tissue came back black.
Though the snake is still alive and well, esthetically it looks pretty rough. I will try to get some pics from the family it was donated to.
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/lifesciences/?action=view�t=09-09hognose001.jpg

That is something I had been considering. Any info or pics would be much appreciated!
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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

That's very interesting Kevin, thanks for sharing!

I know I've witnessed just a few feeding bites from females to males, only one where I actually saw blood from the male so I knew there was deep enough fang penetration, but was never sure if there was any envenomation as I never saw any effects like excessive bleeding, swelling or any other physical change. The male has been perfectly fine since.

I've also witnessed many self-inflicted bites from spastic feeding responses with no ill effects although those bites have always been quickly terminated.

If this was the actual cause in Lindsay's case, an envenomated bite, then it would make one ponder as to why this male is suffering just effects, such as if the venom went into the bone or perhaps into an organ rather than just muscle, anything to cause such a negative reaction. It's very interesting to ponder.

I do hope your hog turns out fine Lindsay. It sucks when these mysterious things happen.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Troy,

Checked his cloaca. It appears to have some remnants of dried blood, but not much else. I'm figuring he lost a hemipene when his tail was broken.

Almost 100% sure on that now, as when he crawls there is no movement from there down. Break is just above his cloaca.

Behaviorally he is still fine. Active, alert and even hissed at me. I will see if I can get him to eat tomorrow. I haven't fed him since I offered food a week Dter brumation and he refused (he was however in the same tub as a girl and that was before this whole craziness).
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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

That's pretty neat, Kevin...would love for you to elaborate.

The male is still showing the smears of gray, however he has several brownish yellow scabs forming on the sides.

Behaviorally he is still normal, however his cage now smells like rot, and there are no dead rodents.

His tail seems smaller and it's tighter. I can barely move it now. It's very stiff.

There is a fecal bulge just above his cloaca. I do not believe he can pass the feces on his own. I have considered trying to help him pass it, but at this point, I'm taking quality of life into consideration.

Still not sure what happened. A friend suggested nerve or circulation damage due to the break in his tail.

I don't think he's gonna survive this.

The one bit of good news is that he may have locked with the female he broke his tail with, and the babies I just hatched could possibly be his (they are very red, and their mother has no red in coloration. I only have two males with some red, and the babies have the contrast of this guy).

I'm gonna go mope/cry in a corner now.

Thanks for the help everyone. And the support.
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4.3.1 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake

Sorry to hear it. Almost starting to sound like there may be internal infections.

I looked for pics of the bite victim however due to the unsightly look, the pics he is in do not show the scarred areas.
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/lifesciences/?action=view�t=09-09hognose001.jpg

I'm so sorry hun...hugs for you and your poor boy.
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

Thank you.

I may try to do a necropsy later if I'm feeling up to it, and see if I can determine the final issue, though I'm feeling sure it was the spine.
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4.4.4 Western Hognose
1.1 Ball Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat Snake