Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently read an old post on some random forum where someone claimed that the Lipstick and Coral traits can only be carried on to the offspring if both parents are visible, with at least one having the Lipstick/Coral trait. This doesn't sound right to me since as far as I know it's just a line bred trait, meaning it might wash it down if you try to produce a Lipstick albino from the hets of a lipstick x normal pairing, but it would still be there.

I have a female lipstick sunglow that I'm planning to pair with a leopard male, and plan to try and hit the odds with some of their triple het offspring. I doubt you would be able to identify the lipstick trait when leopard is thrown in, but there is almost guaranteed to be some albinos/sunglows 66% het leopard, so basically I'm asking is there any chance that those albinos/sunglows will display the lipstick trait, regardless of it being lessened from being paired with a non-lipstick?

I feel like I know I'm right in thinking that it will still show, we all know how much misinformation gets spread around in this scene. But seeing that this project will span across multiple years, I figure it's worth asking

well according to some as you may have read in the older posts, lipstick is nothing more than a marketing ploy created by Tom Burke. I also note that some of the same people who said that, used all sorts of fancy names to describe their generic boas. You say you are using a "Lipstick" Sunglow female but you must know this one simple fact about MOST of todays Lipsticks. This is a fact. Many breeders(knowingly or un-knowingly)after breeding a known lipstick animal to a non lipstick animal, call their offspring lipsticks when in fact they are not. Worse yet, they use offspring of a lipstick to a non lipstick breeding which they have been incorrectly calling lipsticks, and breed them to other unrelated non lipstick animal and CONTINUE TO CALL THE OFFSPRING LIPSTICKS. It kills me to see this but this is what goes on. Many people do not know(and many do but ignore this fact) that the first actual Lipsticks were produced from two hypo females AND ONLY when they were bred with one specific male. Any other combo produced "normal" colored albinos hypos and sunglows. That being said, this is my experience with Lipsticks. Years ago I invested quite a bit of money into Lipstick animals which I got directly from my friend Tom Burke. When I started to produce babies and bring them to shows I started to realize something. My sunglows were better than anyone elses. My albinos looked like everyone elses sunglows. When Albinos fell to $300 each I was still getting $750.00. Anything I have ever bred my Lipstick stuff into(that was not lipstick) produced better than average looking offspring. For me, the proof was in the pudding. If you didn't produce your Lipstick, contact the breeder who did and see if he or she used two known Lipstick animals before they used the term Lipstick to identify their babies. Dont be shocked if they in fact didnt. Take care and good luck. I hope I helped you. Mike Panichi

Thanks for the lengthy reply Lots of good info.

I don't mind people calling them lipsticks when they've actually been "watered down", since the only way to get "pure lipsticks" would just be continuous inbreeding, so at some point there would have to be some outcrossing, especially to mix in any other morph. Though I think the label "pure lipstick" obviously holds a much higher value than "lipstick".

I got my girl from Ashley Lopez of Black Forest Constrictors, and she (the snake, not Ashley ) clearly has some red sides. According to her site, my girl came from a Hypo het Albino Female / Pure Lipstick Sunglow male pairing.

So while she is only "half" lipstick, I'm hoping the standard of nice animals having nice offspring still holds, since she look amazing to me. Though like I said, I'm pretty new to boas, and sometimes someone will post a picture of what seems to be a pretty normal looking boa to me, but everyone comments how amazing it is. So for all I know, this girl that looks amazing to me could just be standard to everyone else.

good question asked...and Mike really explained it well..it also takes select breeding to produce great results..time searching and money to buy highend animals will reward you.


all the best.

I agree with Mike and would add, what is 'lipstick' ? For me it's red and if I remember, It's Amanda B. that gave that name on the 2004 litter, not Tom. What's the lipstick color 90% of the girls use ?

I got the first boas Tom B. has aven sold out the US, it came here in Paris. That was in 2004, it was a lipstick male (a keeper the best one)and the dh mother was Ruby.
That guy was red, not orange, so to keep that color, the problem was to make the right breeding choice. I bred him to a blood line I was working with, red pastels.

So, in 2010 I got the first litter resulting of the out crossing work, fantastic red sunglows and orange sunglows. In 2012, I got a f2 with the same results. SO....what about lipsticks ? Only the deep red ones are sold as lipsticks, the fantastic orange ones are labelled as lipstick line. The % between lipstick and lipstick line is never the same in the litters. They are all collorfull adults but the lipstick keep a deep contrast, like ifthey have been painted with a lipstick !

To get the best with leopards, it-s just as simple as to start with the redest leopards with reduce black and yellow and the reddest sunglow.

Here in europe 95% of the sunglows labelled as lipstick are not

Lipstick line vs lipstick after the first shed. It( hard to get colors on a pic, one id red, one is orange !

2012 lipstick, first meal, red is coming after 3 weeks.

2010 lipstick 1 month old

2010 lipstick 4 months old.

Anyway, no need to buy a morph name if you know what you are looking for and like it.

Thanks.
Alain.

Well said and those are wonderful babies you have. I remember from some of your older posts that you have beautiful Lipsticks. Like you said, it's all about your breeding goals and starting with the best stock you can get. I hope all is well. Take care. Mike Panichi.

You are correct the Lipstick trait is a Particular Line of Boas produce bt Tom Burke using 3 or 4 specific animals in the beginning as I understand it . . .

The Posts before me have done very well explaining the process of making nice Boas and distinguishing
between a Lipstick Line Sunglow and a non Lipstick Line . . . . . .

Here is a set of Older posts that thoroughly explain what created the very first set of Burke Lipstick Line Sunglow Boas . . . . .

Lipstick Line
The Lipstick Line refers to babies produced by three females in the Burkes collection. These are Hypo het Albino females purchased from D&M Breeders. Ruby as named by Damion of D&M is the nicest of these females and subsequently produced the first "Lipstick" Sunglows. As the name grew in popularity any animals produced from those females came to be known as the Lipstick line

The Lipstick Line......

Posted by: vcaruso15 at Thu Mar 19 12:58:15 2009

I posted this down below but didn't want it to get lost down there....
refers to babies produced by three females in the Burkes collection. These are Hypo het Albino females purchased from D&M Breeders. Ruby as named by Damion of D&M is the nicest of these females and subsequently produced the first "Lipstick" Sunglows. As the name grew in popularity any animals produced from those females came to be known as the Lipstick line. As far as I know all the males used in these breedings were coral albino males that came from Pete.

RE: The Lipstick Line......

Posted by: johnmartino at Thu Mar 19 15:42:20 2009
You are correct that the three females came from DM. However that is where the line ends. Tom uses one albino male bred to those three females to produce the lipsticks. He has tried using a different male to the same females and a different female to the same male and none of those breedings produced lipsticks. The only true lipsticks produced came from that combo of the one male and the three females and that combo only.

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. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

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