Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is the market as dead as it appears? Time to sell all?

With just a quick view of various bp forums it's easy to see all the new additions breeders and hobbyist are adding to their collections. You will likely find threads, like this one, that suggest otherwise, but, in my estimation, this is based primarily on what people see each day on the classifieds.
No doubt there is an abundance of ball pythons in the market, but there are also new people getting into the hobby every day and others, on every level, who are "upgrading" their existing stock.
There will be price fluctuations for sure, but some of those prices will be going up instead of down. I'm optimistic about the future...I can hardly wait to see what people hatch this season and what I can pick up.
John
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John Woolard Reptiles
Visit me on Facebook

If you're in this thinking you're going to get rich quick, It is Absolutely Time to Sell All! I don't mean anything negative about the "market" or the animals. It's totally aimed at people trying to do nothing but make a quick buck........

>>Is the market as dead as it appears? Time to sell all?

I think Facebook has put a severe damper on forums. We sold more animals from our Facebook page than we did anywhere else last season. We have 2 Balls left and we are already starting to get requests for animals.
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

if everything is selling on FB then why do the same ads run endlessly on KS?

Things are pretty good, but we are past the point where you can just sell anything for big bucks. There are hardly any albinos on kingsnake and haven't been since Christmas. You still can't buy these things in pet stores. There were tons of them produced, they all sold. I saw the difference in Daytona this year. Every table loaded with $2000 brown animals. That ain't gonna work. Produce desirable animals and sell them at the right price, no pie in the sky and it works just fine. Sharpen up, this ain't going away. Kurt d.

People sell or trade something and forget to pull the ad a lot of times. The ads can relist every 24 hours at same time daily, till you click the delete or hide button. Problem is not that things don't sell. It's that people are producing alot of by product that's already common and people can either make it or have it already. The shift is the cheaper animals need to go to pet stores and such. A lot of people don't have sales skills or outlets besides king snake so they have to keep posting till it it sells. Cheap stuff doesn't really sell when shipping can be $39(our account) or $50 for other shipping accounts. So a $50 male pastel costs $89 minimum or $100 shipped. Cheaper to buy at next show. That's why it's good to upgrade your collection every year. Try not to produce pastel males, etc. with your breeding s. better to have a male bee as by product.
We gladly buy as much cheap stuff as possible so we have stock all year for our wholesale customers, retail, store front, and show customers. A lot of breeders don't have N outlet like us, and rely and stick to one method then complain they can't sell anything. I

>>People sell or trade something and forget to pull the ad a lot of times. The ads can relist every 24 hours at same time daily, till you click the delete or hide button. Problem is not that things don't sell. It's that people are producing alot of by product that's already common and people can either make it or have it already. The shift is the cheaper animals need to go to pet stores and such. A lot of people don't have sales skills or outlets besides king snake so they have to keep posting till it it sells. Cheap stuff doesn't really sell when shipping can be $39(our account) or $50 for other shipping accounts. So a $50 male pastel costs $89 minimum or $100 shipped. Cheaper to buy at next show. That's why it's good to upgrade your collection every year. Try not to produce pastel males, etc. with your breeding s. better to have a male bee as by product.
>>We gladly buy as much cheap stuff as possible so we have stock all year for our wholesale customers, retail, store front, and show customers. A lot of breeders don't have N outlet like us, and rely and stick to one method then complain they can't sell anything. I
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

>>if everything is selling on FB then why do the same ads run endlessly on KS?

If you are referring to my ads, it is probably due to being a new morph. We have two ball pythons left from last season. They are mid-high end and we usually always sit on them for a while. I have people interested in both.

If you are not referring to my ads, it is probably because KS is getting much less traffic than it did a year ago. We sold 90% of our animals from FB.
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Brandon Osborne Reptiles

It’s funny, you look at one side with regards to Ball Pythons and it’s all doom and gloom, nothing is selling, they can’t give away their snakes, everything is dead, the party is over, etc, etc. You look at the other side with regards to Ball Pythons, many selling the same snakes and in many cases the same genes, and they are sold out, can’t produce enough, they are turning away people because they are sold out.

Wonder what’s the difference? Ball pythons, the genes, or could it be the individual sellers themselves you are focusing on?

I agree that facebook has killed the forums for the most part, if you look at most forums today compared to say 5yrs ago, it’s a ghost town for the most part. But, it’s a mistake to look at a few or one source and think that represents the whole.

This is like going to a party at 1:00am that ended an hour ago, and all you see are a few staggering drunks and a few cleaning up, and thinking…”this party sucks!”. What you don’t realize is, the party simply moved down the street, is actually just getting started, is actually better and bigger than ever..LOL Question is, will YOU get in on the party, or find yourself sitting outside on the curb complaining about the noise?...LOL

Hi Gerry,

Great analogy, its not that its over the party just moved locations, I like that a lot.

I still only focus on the basic morphs and their combos, as most of the new stuff are just similar light brown snakes in my opinion. But, those basics (albinos, pieds, lessers, mojos, leucies, pastels and combos) are selling better than ever before, for me anyway. I rarely post adds because of word of mouth sales. Sure, the entry level morphs I mentioned are less dough per snake, but all of these new folks want to start with basic morphs and work their way up from there. This game was, is, and will continue to a pyramid game. I'll be happy to continue supplying the lower levels of that pyramid as more and more folks jump in. Thanks.

Will

Agreed.
Facebook and youtube have become major sales avenues.

FB is the new way to move snakes,easy to use and no cost to advertise.

when you see the same ad for the same animals, over and over again...then no. Some run it for a month, pull it...then 3 months later its the same ad, same animals. Lower price...

Everyone said ball pythons would end up just like corn snakes and it happened.

are cornsnakes selling for thousands of dollars?

Because I have spent an atrocious amount of money these past two years. I doubt Ball Pythons will be like cornsnakes any time soon.
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Ritchie

Well my first year in business I was actually blown away with how great the market and sales were. I just filed my taxes and it was actually great to see the figures surpassing my expectations in 2012. I'm very excited for 2013!

I haven't been doing this very long, and I've made pretty darn good money already. As for the snakes that run and run on kingsnake, I don't really know much about that other than if its not selling, the snake obviously doesn't match the price tag or something. I sell a majority of my snakes to folks who simply just text me and we make a deal.

I actually think its certain people being focused on certain mutations that people have lost the diversity factor... That is going to change in the near future when prices drop on popular projects and people will need to reinvest in other low production, high value mutations..

As for old mutations being cheap and hard to sell, you have to understand there was a spike in BP mutations in a narrow period of time. You're starting to see a lot of them overproduced and hard to sell. Folks need to find new mutations to spice things up and make different, exciting and enjoyable animals. I have probably 50-100 new morphs at my facility so I think there are years of ball python greatness for the future. To say they are like corn snakes, is ludicrous from my perspective.

Very well put Brant. I agree completely. You cannot compare the ball python phenomena to anything that's happened with any other reptile. The ball python is far and away the most polymorphic reptile on the planet, and I promise you we are only beginning to scratch the surface of this thing. The cutting edge of what we are doing with them now is mind-blowing, but can you imagine where we will be in ten years?... and yes there will still be buyers for high quality animals.

Right on Brant. Sales have never been better for me than they are now. The hobbyist, customer base has never been larger. There is so much new stuff about to blow up as well.

To those who watch the classifieds to judge the BP market... The really good snakes, the big money snakes that sell fast, don't make it to the classifieds. Don't judge how well Amazon is doing by checking prices at the local garage sales.
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J. Kobylka Reptiles
JKR 2012 Birthing Records

Warning: Snakes have been shown to cause death in laboratory rats.

I agree totally Brant. My sales have only increased year over year and I've been selling for 10 years now. Everything eventually sells but picking the right projects and constantly adjusting your breeding stock has been the key for me.

Tom

Well said... Sales last year were great... Don't see any reason they won't be next year and for years to come... I think if People knew how many snakes were sold without ever being placed in an ad I think would boggle their minds... To this day I have never put up a ball python for sale that did not sell... May not have sold the first day the first week or the first month but they always sell....
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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
6.40
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

Also about those adds that run for a long time... Most people will not place an add for 8 female mystics... Or 5.7 mystics... Most people place an add for 1.1 or 1.2 mystics and sell pairs or singles to a bunch of different people and keep running the add until they are all gone... So you may watch the add thinking it took that guy 3 months to sell a pair of mystics but what you may not know is that he sold 6 or 7 pairs in that time!
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Jason Amos

Ball Pythons
6.40
Dogs
1.1 Staffordshire Bull Terriers

I just bought a collection from someone...
and my first two clutches are practically sold before they even hatch.
No deposits or anything, but a lot of interest.

I have been buying but had to stop.

Once I sell whatever I have produced then I will be buying again.
I prefer to buy from Kingsnake and Fauna. I don't particularly like buying from facebook. As a Matter of Fact, I do not think I have bought a single snake from facebook yet. I just got back into snakes in 2010 after a long hiatus. Of the 50 plus snakes, Six came from craigslist. The rest came from Kingsnake with several coming from fauna.

Facebook is way to spread out. There are way too many pages to sell or buy from. I hate having to hunt down who has what and where their link is at.

I love coming here and fauna and just having the animals "come to me".
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Ritchie