Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This was a small litter but awesome. There were 7 slugs, one still 6 live and one of them deformed. The pairing was a female Pastel Motley Poss het albino to a Jungle Poss Het snow. Out of the babies there were 2 Motley Jungles one of them being anery and the other nomal. Two were just jungles and the last was a Anery Super Motley. What are the odds. I have been explained about this happened and still confused about the Super any ways. But either way Cool and I am hoping for the best. Sorry for the not so good pics. Thanks for looking MIke Masters

Mike,
The reason that one is a super motley produced though parthenogenesis is because that egg was essentially fertilized by itself. The egg, like a sperm, carries one set of the mother's chromosomes. The complimentary set is provided by the sperm. In this case the egg fused with its second polar body, a region that normally degrades (as does the first polar body). The egg in fusing with this believes it has been fertilized and starts to develop. In those case it doubles its one set of chromosomes, hence producing two identical copies of the initial set and thus regaining a diploid chromosomal configuration. The baby can therefore be a motley, if that egg did not have a motley allele, or a super, if it did as it now has two copies of that chromosome. The babies are therefore half clones of the mother. The baby is also female because snakes have Z and W sex chromosomes. Females are ZW, males ZZ. We are yet to see any male parthenogenetic boas ( interestingly, all parthenogens produced in the advanced snakes (I.e. the Colubrodae) are male, while in pythons and boas they are female).

Make sense?

I look forward go receiving your samples.

Warren
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Dr. Warren Booth
Assistant Professor of Molecular Ecology
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Tulsa

USARK - Director

Its amazing really if you think about it. Thanks for explaining it so I could wrap my head around it. Why are there survivability issues with them? Thanks. Mike Panichi. PS. Nice litter and best of luck with them.

Not only survival, but aren't they "sterile" even if they make it to sub adult years? I'd love to own one but not if they won't be around for long

What evidence is there to suggest a parthenogen is sterile? There have been no deliberate breeding trials with a parthenogenetically produced boid to date. There is at least one super motley CA that has produced a litter recently. The thing looked horrendous and the litter was largely stillborn, but, it did go full term and produce two healthy babies.

The issue with parthenogens is that nobody really knows anything about their viability long term. I have had 5 parthenogenetic boas. 3 are still in my lab, 2 I recently euthanized due to overall weak physical condition. I have a Boawoman Caramel parthenogen that should breed next season.

If you are referring to super motleys being weak. Yes, they trully suck at most things in life, including living. Hopefully Tibor's outcrossed line might show promise.

Warren
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Dr. Warren Booth
Assistant Professor of Molecular Ecology
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Tulsa

USARK - Director

I may have been wrong, but I thought because they're life span is short, no ones ever gotten super to produce, even if it made it to sub adult status and was paired up

Congrats Michael!

I've heard of the usual supers from motley x motley not living, but has this type of parthenogenetic super motley been seen before and proven just as weak? What two types of parthenogenetic boas did you have Dr. Warren?

Hi,
In my lab I have Boawoman Caramels that I described in the Biology Letters paper in 2011 - http://171.66.127.192/content/7/2/253.full.pdf html

I also had 4 from a different litter. These were 2 anerythristics and 2 super ghosts. Of those, I ahve 1 anerythristic and 1 super ghost still living. Weak, unimpressive animals. Poor growth and body structure, but living. The Boawoman caramal thrives and eats large rats. She is probably around 4ft in length.

Once my new animal room is ready I will be receiving another group of potential parthenogens.

At my collaborators lab we have parthenogenetic copperheads and cottonmouths. Then at a second collaborators facility we have parthenogenetic ball pythons and retics.

Warren
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Dr. Warren Booth
Assistant Professor of Molecular Ecology
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Tulsa

USARK - Director

Warren, the following sentences are the most enjoyable thing I've read in recent memory:

"If you are referring to super motleys being weak. Yes, they trully suck at most things in life, including living."

lol. I am to please. It is true however, they really do suck at life itself.

Warren
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Dr. Warren Booth
Assistant Professor of Molecular Ecology
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Tulsa

USARK - Director

Now that you've said it, I think I'll start using that in scientific discussion.
"Yes, the culture failed. Reasoning behind that? It sucked at living."

People have often said. "Warren, can you put that into layman's terms". I just did.

Warren
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Dr. Warren Booth
Assistant Professor of Molecular Ecology
Department of Biological Sciences
University of Tulsa

USARK - Director

congrats..i digem.