Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello. i have been keeping and breeding snakes for a little over 26 years. i have always enjoyed bigger, naturalistic enclosures. my question is, how do western hognose snakes do in these types of naturalistic enclosures? i have heard that they do poorly...but what if they had several tight hides, with the proper heat and temperatures, with a moist hide? i am planing on getting and working with hognose snakes. i have had a few in the past, but kept them in racks because i always heard they do not do well in anything less than small enclosures...? how true is this and what are you guys with a lot of hognose experience think and experience with this? i have always worked with retics, boas, aborials, ect...and have not worked with hognoses much...any and all advice would be much appreciated. i also would rather have experiences from EXPERIENCED hognose keepers, and not guesses...i also plan on doing some breeding as well, and how does this work in naturalistic enclosures? thanks again, rick.

Any reptile will do poorly in a "naturalistic" set up if it is set up poorly. A properly set up cage will yeild great results.

Tight hides and humid boxes will just limit their choices. If you are going to go through the time and trouble settig up a natural cage, you should offer as many temperature and humidity gradients as possible.

In a natural encloser for this species I would offer no less than a foot of densely packed sandy soil. Damp on the bottom layers and dry on the surface. I would make sure there is no ventelation so the heat and humidity can not escape so glass aquariums with screen lids would not be suitable.

Offer a hot basking area. In a natural set up, I would use a basking bulb to heat the surface of the basking area, In a nice big cage, you can offer a hot spot of 100 degrees or so. They will use that high of a basking area when they need it. I would also suggest using a low wattage bulb closer to the basking area instead of using a high wattage far away. By doing this, you will avoid drying out the air and soil.

Add whatever kind of decore you like...

thanks greg,
what ambient humidity should the entire enclosure be? i only ask because everything i have read to this point said to keep the humidity low, and the ventilation as high as possible. and that the keeper should offer humid 'hides'....?
i have kept a lot of natural enclosures before, and i feel i am very good at providing usable and functional environments...and i have a good system down to get huge temperature gradients.
i also am a huge fan of using both underbelly heat, and low wattage bulbs, when using lights for heat. i am however, more used to keeping higher humidity loving animals, chondros, emeralds, boa constrtictors, retics, ect...so the hognoses will be a new and exciting species to work with i am sure. i kept and bred chondros when i was seventeen(im 35 now), and most people told me that i wouldnt even be able to keep them alive(and at that time, not a lot of people were)...so i am pretty sure i will be successful with hognoses.
i am confident that i will be able to provide a good environment, with correct perameters...but the humidity has me a little confused...because what i get from what you are saying, is totally different than all of the other info that i have read...and OBVIOUSLY you know what you are doing...one only has to see your animals, and the success you have had with them. thanks for your help! rick

Hi Rick, the thing is, reptiles of all kinds need to have a humidity gradient. If you are running a deep substrate and using lights to heat your surface, you will create the proper gradient of humidity. Just like with heat gradients, reptile need to use both dryer and more humid enviroments inside their environments. They will use these different micro environments frequently. What I have seen is that hogs actually like humid areas and will retreat to them for hours a day. I have seen no evidence of URIs due to humid condition in western hogs. Humidity does not cause URIs on its own in any species. There would need to be othe factors involved like general poor husbandry. Again, the key is to provide a gradient.

i totally agree. the same thing is seen in ball pythons, atleast by me. people see that ball pythons come from africa...and instantly think 'hot and dry'.
they fail to realize that a ball python is underground 95 percent of their lives, in rodent burrows and termite mounds...and they are actually from scrublands and not the desert. i think that is why you see so many ball pythons that have crappy sheds and look dehydrated.
i agree with what you are saying about the humidity gradient, and i also agree that a higher degree of temp gradients are also important. i have always believed and utilized much higher temp AND humidity gradients than most people tend to use...and i feel my animals have always benefitted from this. it totally makes sense with hognose snakes too, and i am glad i asked this question, and i am greatful for your responses as well, thank you. actually, i had planned on using the deep soil(except i was thinkin like 8 to 10 inches, but twelve would be better) i was planing on using different sized hides, at different levels of temp and humidity(and had GREAT success setting up rosy boas this way), and giving the animals lots of room to thermoregulate and explore. while i have used racks in the past, i have ALWAYS had naturalistic enclosures and feel the animals benefit highly from them...AS LONG AS THEY ARE SET UP PROPERLY. i think a lot of people set up enclosures, but dont take into consideration the animals needs...but more thier own...'it looks good, so it is good enough for me"...rarely seeing that the gradients are simply not there.
so basically i think i was probably pretty close to 'hitting the nail on the head'...as far as what i was thinking, with a few details needing adjusted. i appreciate your input, and plan on picking up some animals as soon as i find some i am interested in getting..i have found that i am pretty much going to have to wait for the 2013 babies to hatch and start feeding before i find some females...lol.
i know snakes are better housed alone, but i have also heard several keepers who keep a few hognoses togeather, what are your thoughts on this....? i would think that a female would probably be stressed having a male constantly trailing and crawling on her...thanks again for your responces, i really appreciate it greg!

Rick,
I think you already had the answer to your question before you asked it. LOL. I think you will do well with the hogs you wil be getting this year.

With hogs, you will not need hide spots. Offering them the substrate will be what they need. They will make their own hidding places and will pick the places they will want to be. With the deep substrate, it offers and even wider range of temperature gradients as well as providing the proper humidity gradient.

Most of our hogs are set up in racks. We have too many projects to house them all in huge, natural cages. However, we do have a couple of pairs that are housed in natural set ups together year round. The males will not constantly trail the females. In fact, if the female is not receptive she will let the male know and the male do get the hint and will stop his advances. They can cohbitate just fine provided their husbandry is correct. I used to cohabitate kings years ago and never had a single issue with it. Never had one try to eat the other. This might just be due to my tendancy to feed my snakes well though... LOL...

thanks greg! i kinda figured, but it is always better to ask others with real world experience. i read yours and franks topic that started out as tuna and fish scenting pinkies...you both made a lot of good observations and points, and that thread alone gave me a lot of excitement...i think these animals are going to be an amazing species to observe and work with. i have had a few in the past, but i am going to pick up a few high end animals and play around with them, in naturalistic enclosures. they have always interested me, but over the past couple of weeks, the more research i do...they actually fascinate me and i am excited to work with them. i have been talking to a couple of guys and will be getting at least a couple pretty soon, but i wont be getting many females until some of you guys drop the 2013 models(at least not many)...which is okay. i plan to breed, but i learned pretty quickly int his 'hobby' not to get in a hurry, so i am not...i am in a hurry to get some, but the breeding will come in time. i think the hypo and toffe condas are going to be my first goal...i am getting some conda het toffee and hypo's...and not sure what else. i really like the exreme red albinos and pastel pinks. i have never been a fan of any other species in the anery paintjob...but the hognoses are awesome in anery, and they even look great as adults. thanks again for your time, and your replies, and i cant wait to see what you produce this year...im sure i will get at least a few animals from you! take care and thanks! rick

Excellent question. I will give you some of my experiences.
Kept hogs as a kid in 10 and 20 gallon screen topped containers with no trouble , however wasn't breeding.
In the early 2000's I was keeping lots of Hognose so space saving was necessary. Went with sterile tubs with locking tops.
Visually these were basic and non esthetic.
In 2003 I purchased my first rack.
Lots of thought and time for myself was given to why breeding was limited in my collection.
I still have no problem with rack systems as long as the snakes basic needs are met.
In the late 2000's I was researching info on how reptiles thermo regulate in the wild. Came across info from the merkers that detailed how they studied crotaphytus and moist hides were provided. I could concur as most crotaphytus hides in the wild were the same way. At that point, I decided to provide moist lay boxes for all my hogs.
Recently I acquired some old lizard lounges and set them up for my hogs.
I fashioned them after some i had seen online in the uk. They have artificial
Plants as hogs will unroot live plants. I also have UVB lighting on the tank and notice them bask a lot. The hides are placed on the cool end. The warm end is set with helix controlled tape at 98 degrees. Ambient temps are set at 80 to 85.
The base bedding is sani chips with coco bark mixed in. I layer the top with oak leaves for extra depth and to add to the look. I routinely add water to a certain corner to dampen the substrate although they primarily have a basking spot on the open on cool side, a spot near heat tape for heat and utilize the moist hide extensively. The hides have moist,tightly packed long stemmed sphagnum.
I like the look of the setups and can observe them at any time. I also have my racks set up the same without the basking lamps.

I would def consider it.

Hope this helps.
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

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