Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello,

i will share my experience with hognose impaction so that it might help someone else down the road. i am new to hogs, but not new to reptiles. i currently have a handful of hatchling and sub adults hogs.

i recently bought a 300g adult female hognose. she arrived, and i noticed that her tail was swollen for about an inch after the vent. i contacted the seller and a different breeder that i trusted as well. i looked online and got some mixed info. seems that some people call it "normal" and others that it's an infection.

after going back and forth with the seller, another breeder, and no solid answers on the internet that i could find; i took her to a vet in orlando specializing in exotics. he imediately recognized it and informed me that it is fairly common, but not healthy. it is an impaction/infection of the cloacal musk gland. he inserted a syringe and dark brown puss/infectious material came out. he said that it doesn effect the health in the long term and he has treated it numerous times. he said if it gets worse that surgery is required, but not good odds with it being effective.

i contacted the seller with the facts from the vet. he took her back and refunded the money i had into her, which is fair. i hope she gets treated.

so.... just for clarity, impacted musk glad is NOT healthy. it is medical condition that needs to be treated. it might be common, but not healthy.

just thought i would share my experience and facts that i got from a medical expert in the exotics field. hopefully this might help someone else down the road...

jonathan

her tail swollen from the impaction/infection

the puss/infectious material oozing out once pierced

thanks for the input, it is nice to know...but one small detail... what causes this, and how does someone prevent it. is it from the substrate used, or something else? thanks. rick

I am also curious of what kind of bedding/substrate the breeder kept her on...I have seen problems in a few different species of both snakes and lizards that I believe could have been from the very fine 'dust' that aspen shavings had in it. that stuff is VERY dusty, and the dust is a VERY FINE grade also...I wonder if anyone else has had issues from the powder like dust in aspen bedding...I will NEVER use it again in ANY species of reptiles...just me.

This is a stress induced disorder. The snakes lose the ability to fight off common everyday bacteria(gram-negative)

When stressed, the stress surpresses the immune system and anything and everything takes hold. mouthrot, URI, etc are common immune system failure diseases. localized infections, including scent glands are also common.

Normal husbandry will prevent this from occuring. And I mean totally prevent this. The question is, what is normal husbandry?

I agree that stress does play a huge role in the health and immune systems in reptiles, especially captive reptiles. actually, I would even go as far as to say that a wild reptile has way less stress than most captive animals...especially animals not kept in optimal conditions(which has a very wide range...wider than correct parameters indeed). I would say that the most stress a wild reptile would go through would be abnormal weather patterns, or maybe less than ideal numbers of prey items...as well as habitat destruction...but naturally speaking I would say odd weather patterns and prey scarcity. I think a lot more captive reptiles are under a certain amount of stress, even though a lot of their keepers would never admit it. that does make sense Frank, I didn't know if there was another specific 'cause' of that type of impaction...but the stress does make a lot of sense.

Hi Again, to whom am I speaking, hahahahaha Are two people using the same handle? Not that it really matters.

I think you are talking about two different things. First, I am sensitive to this, so forgive me. Optimum is not the issue. You said, optimum conditions in nature. ITs not about optimum conditions, its about minimum conditions. They are designed for minimum conditions, below that, they fail and are gone. Optimum conditions would be so much support that the whole place is crawling in hognose. hahahahahahahahaha.

So to think of nature as optimum is misleading, with normal choices, they perform well to the minimum conditions.

About prey. lack of prey is not a physical stress to the immune system until they starve to death. And yes, that occurs. But they still have the right temps and humidity to choose from.

Extreme weather can and does kill off thousands to tens of thousands, just like THAT. But is not a real issue for disease. (normally)

Disease and impacted immune system takes longterm poor support. For instance, the immune system seems to be supported by high temps within their temp range. Like up to a degree or so below heat failure. Animals simply move to cool when needed. If they are prevented from moving away, they are dead. End of that story.

Which is the point, their behaviors and needs are not based on the dead. They are based on the ones that make the right choices. The rest are gone. bye bye, see you later.

Next, about a specific point, that is in error as well. What caused that scent gland impaction was most likely a gram-negative infection. That would be the specific cause. The infection took place because the individual had no means to prevent it. Preventing it could be the immune system and antibodies. Or basking to super high temps and going into a cool burrow(native american cure)

In nature, there is two basic parts of a population, with these kinds of reptiles. Residents, ones with a set home range, reliable prey source/s a family and kids, vacation home on the islands, etc. And transients. Ones with a loose home range, not consistant mates and no reliable set prey source. These are bumped from place to place by their own kind. The are normally what feeds the predators(exposed alot) get hit by cars, etc. And they are the most often studied, AS NORMAL. Why you ask, because they are easy to local,

Back back back to the point. One studied revealed these transients did have or carry all manner of disease. Where as, resident animals were clean. So yes, in nature, this stuff occurs, we did not come up with it. We are just good at supporting it. Did I lose you again?

nope, you have not lost me yet, lol. very good points and informative post, thanks Frank!

the cause? i can not accurately state the cause. i have heard several theories one of which poor husbandry. the snakes staying in conditions in which there environment is not kept clean enough. the other theory was dust/or dirt plugging the gland and the snake not being able to soak itself to loosen it up.

i can accurately say that the musk gland gets impacted, dries out, they are not able to pass anything through the gland, the musk builds up, and infection sets in.

i saw several post online saying that it was "normal" which is total b.s. imo. also from in the opinion of an experienced vet. from my perspective, that would be like having a hemroid the size of a baseball hanging off your butt and saying it's normal

if anyone else has any info on it, i would be interested in hearing it.

jonathan

Your getting good advice from your vet. Its not normal. Hmmmmm its not normal with good support. IT can be normal with poor husbandry.

Whats the exact cause. I cannot tell you. Most likely your vet can't either or he would have.

Stress that surpresses the immune system, can be caused by dirty cages. or wrong temps, or lack of security. Or an uncompatable cage mate. In short, that snake cannot preform to normal biologically and possibiby behaviorally. Normal is minimum levels of success.

Is poor husbandry the problem, yes. Husbandry is defined as to husband. Which sadly for us guys means to "support" and that means to support whats needed. So if husbandry causes disease or malfunction, then its poor. simple as that.

Most keepers do not want to label what good husbandry actually is or what is poor husbandry. To some, the snake having a heartbeat is good. To others, reaching basic normal life events is good. Still to others, recieving exceptional results is good husbandry.

I am pretty simple, anything that causes something bad, is poor husbandry, anything that causes good things, is good husbandry. The better the results, then the better the husbandry.

I am also critical. Anything that happens bad in my cages is MY FAULT. and anything that happens good is because the animals are great and I help express that. Best wishes.