Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Took a few quick pics of my het-albino hog:

Who does not love an awesome yellow and black bullsnake?

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Genesis 1:1

Nice, thanks for posting!

It's been pretty slow in here lately. Glad to see at least some activity.

Is the Bull a cb or wc? I do like the color on him also!

Thanks!!! He is my only hog, and I think the world of him. Been so much fun owning the little dude.

Bull is a yellow bull from Jason Nelson/Envy Reptiles. My favorite bull in my collection actually.
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Genesis 1:1

Nice, I've been trying to acquire one, but I can't find any local at all. It's been a waiting game. I did score on two aquariums this morning though. I've been checking CL and saw 2 for 15 bucks....couldn't pass that up. Well at least I'll be ready if I ever do find one! Ha!

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get yours? How old is it? Have you had any problems with feeding?

I keep reading that little ones are sometimes a bit hard to start feeding.

How is yours when handled? Ever try and bite you?

Are you asking about the hognose or the bull?
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Genesis 1:1

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get yours? How old is it? Have you had any problems with feeding?

I keep reading that little ones are sometimes a bit hard to start feeding.

How is yours when handled? Ever try and bite you?
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Sorry about that....I was asking about the Hognose.

No worries! Just wanted to make sure I was going to give you the correct info on the correct snake.

He came from John Schmitt/Suncoast Herps, at the Daytona 2010 show, so he is 3 this year. Never had any problems with him eating, as he ate like a champ on mice from day one, and grew to adult size in 2 years. He is always completely calm when handled. Sometimes gives a hiss here and there when I open up his cage, but he has never tried to bite me ever. Been the perfect pet.
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Genesis 1:1

Nice, glad to hear that. I've been watching some YouTube video's, where some are rather aggressive and others very easily handled.

Can you show his setup? If you'd rather email instead of posting all this stuff on here just email me...we can continue if you don't mind. Up to you.

I appreciate the time your taking to answer these questions....I've only gotten to talk to a few people about their Hog's...so it's great to see what others are doing and just find out info on them.

This forum has been kinda dead lately....glad someone is around to post something! lol

Sure thing! No prob my friend!

Here is his setup:

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Genesis 1:1

Now that is interesting, the tile....is that just to keep the little hide from moving around? The pvc tube is very cool idea too! Adds some decor to the bin....could also double as a way to keep odd and ends of spare parts....ha!

Which of the two does he seem to prefer the most? ie: hang out in that is...

Your plastic bin, is that part of a rack system? Or is it just a bin that you bought and converted it to a snake container? I've seen many pretty cool little containers now available that seem to be a easy and affordable way to go! Even Walmart is starting to stock some nice containers that could used...these below might work...although getting heat to them might pose a problem.

Hello Austin!

I always have snakes on the brain...LOL...so any damn time I go to Walmart, Target, Home Depot etc. I check out these sort of bins. (Love the PVC coupler, DISCERN!)

A lot of these bins and drawer sets seem to be made of soft plastic, so please be careful. I don't doubt for a second a hognose could work his way out of the gap at the top (not sure on the exact model you've displayed here). These snakes can work their noses into anything, and they're not afraid to climb. (I always offer substrate but you will always have at least one curious hog checking the surface.)

Also, maybe toying with the idea of back heat vs. belly if you really want to try to use these? My hogs seem to like their belly heat though.

Anyway, I really like your idea. Good luck!
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

"I always have snakes on the brain...LOL...so any damn time I go to Walmart, Target, Home Depot etc. I check out these sort of bins."
>>>>>>>>> I like your thinking! I'm just starting to look at these types of containters for snakes....

"A lot of these bins and drawer sets seem to be made of soft plastic, so please be careful. I don't doubt for a second a hognose could work his way out of the gap at the top (not sure on the exact model you've displayed here). These snakes can work their noses into anything, and they're not afraid to climb. (I always offer substrate but you will always have at least one curious hog checking the surface."
>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree completly...there are some that have a bit of an opening...around 1 to 2 cm.....that is too much I think...I would feel better with a tighter fit. The 3 bin image shown is here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-3-Drawer-Wide-Cart-Black/16415880?findingMethod=Recommendation:wm:RecentlyViewedItems I just see these and it just starts me to thinking though...most that I've seen so far in person aren't tight enough to be useful. But I keep looking

The smaller one, the 2 and half quart one ....I like a lot.....but again I would like to see it in person. Your opinion on the small one? You think it would work? At least for a while while they were small babies maybe....

I've been looking at the Flex Watt tape type of stuff.....I could see a home made shelf with a nice strip and laying the containers on it to control temps....I'm talking small, not like for a breeding program....just a home DIY type of set up. What are your thoughts on the plastic? Some I've actually held, seems to be very thin....with the controlled heat of the strip being kept below 90F or 32C.....have you ever heard of any problems? This tape stuff is all new to me....have no experience what so ever...reading other ppl's threads about it....but it seems it's mostly used for big breeding programs....

"Also, maybe toying with the idea of back heat vs. belly if you really want to try to use these? My hogs seem to like their belly heat though. "
>>>>>>> I've only really used a hot rock for a heat source (now this was 25 yrs ago also).....as for heat is pretty much a given here in Texas....lol I have more of a problem keeping temps below 85F when electricity is interrupted.

I've been reading some threads about back heat.....but I think it's easier to use the belly heat option.

"GoHogWild" how's your set up? Share any photos? Always like seeing others.....not to critique or anything...just to see what others are using.....it doesn't have to be pretty .....it just has to work thanks!

Oh my god, I typed this huge response last night and my login must have timed out. Damn.

You're exactly right, for snakes it is function over form and a lot of it has to do with where you live and how much control you have of your "snake room".

(I only have a couple years' experience with hognose so take what I say with a grain of salt. There are people here with a lot more experience!)

If you're in TX I would imagine you could easily get away with tubs for your hognose. If you want to try back heat, You could secure a board behind the shelving system and run some heat tape against it vertically. It would have to be flush, though! Get a nice thermostat, like a Herpstat or Hydrofarm. No need to turn the heat off; it will do so on its own when the set temperature is exceeded. Set it and forget it!

Also, hogs love to make tunnels! Use the pipe if you want, and if you use substrate maybe put a few throughout the substrate and against the side of the enclosure so you get an underground "window"?

I'm in New England and humidity's a pain in the butt this time of year, so I actually put all my smaller colubrids into XL Critter Keeper things...the ones with ventilation going 30% down all the sides...a lot less worrisome than the tubs. I'm still thinking about buying a custom rack though. Something with DEEP tubs for the hognose.

Good luck and have fun
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

Oh and I don't have any recent pics, sorry. I give these guys at least 3" of aspen, the "shaved" type, a heavy crock bowl, a hide on the top of the hot side and a fake plant. These last two things are used mostly when the hogs are going into hunting mode.

They're really cool to watch.

Substrate is a great way of changing humidity. I worry about my hognose a lot more than my P. regius, saving that for the dry winter
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

Have you ever tried astro turf? I used that back in the day as it was very easy to clean. Burrowing snakes though....I guess it would be better to have something they have a choice to burrow in.

From many videos I've watched these guys like to stay out of sight...so being able to watch them maybe isn't as easy I once thought it would be.

What's your experience with this?

Austin, the answers to your questions, all depend on what is important. And who its important to.

This is again why people here "hate" on me here. I look at both sides, what is important to the animal and what is important to us.

I never said, EVER, that the keeper has to do anything they do not want to do.

I do wonder why folks don't want to do some of the stuff that's for the animal.

about your questions. Carpet is directly about the keeper and horrible for the animal.

Being exposed to open air(being up) works against the animals in two basic ways.

Dehydation, open air draws water out of the animal in unnatural ways. Like thru the skin. Desiccation is chronic when exposed to air. Both in captivity and in the field, snakes of all types, avoid desiccation. Gout is a big problem with zoo snakes as they are required to be seen and often have a lot of air space to make viewing better.

continued

The other problem is security. Snakes are very insecure when out in the open, particularly slow moving species like hogs. Simply put, when they are out, by choice or forced, they are vulnerable. So they avoid that unless absolutely necessary.

Materials like aspen and shavings do very little to prevent dehydration, but help with security. Such materials as moist but not wet sandy soils(like what they live in) are how they stay both secure and hydrated.

As I posted, I tested and are testing deep dirt of a suitable type(to the hogs) I set up a cage with wild caught and my son set up a cage with captive hatched.

My WC's went down and never came up, hahahahahahahahaha and I mean never. Hogs are very very timid animals, while they look tame, they are not. They simply lack the ability to take flight, so they don't.

My sons captive hatched, made millions of burrows and continued as normal.

My WC's went native and stayed hidden at all costs. The test continues.

So its your choice, I hope you do both, something good for the keeper and the kept.
In the field, so far, they have not come to the surface for longer then 20 minutes. In all cases where I can determine what they did, they exit one hole, then crawl to another hole a short distance away, then down that hole. This was observed both by tracking and visually. Cheers

Is that the green shag carpet stuff? I only used it for my bearded dragon (the first few months when he wasn't a huge turd) and leopard geckos a long time ago. They sell a flatter kind too, but I'd worry about their claws getting stuck in it.

Oh yeah, snakes

Maybe a terrestrial snake would like that stuff. I would never not give hogs substrate, that's just me. I'm unhappy with the aspen though, as much as the snakes like to tunnel around in it. I'm still looking for that "excavation sand" stuff.

These are very active snakes! Even though they like to hide, you are more likely to observe them in action than a pet rock - er, ball python.
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

THeres no question, pet rocks are a unique animal designed to live in a hole and not do anything.

Hogs are interesting both in the field and in captivity. My wild caught pair are not so much fun as are the captive hatched. They do come out and watch me, but if I move, they freeze.

I think indoor/outdoor carpet is not for any reptile, that's just my opinion. So much Pet store product is worthless. And misleading.

best wishes

"Is that the green shag carpet stuff?"
>>>>>>Yup the stuff I've used before is the short kinda fuzzy kind...I kept 2 snakes on it and never had any issues. It might not be natural but it was a lot easier to clean than changing out wood chips, plus I'm talking a 50 gallon tank too. Having a big water bowl in with em alleviated any dehydrated problems. Just changing the water daily or even every other day was good.

"Maybe a terrestrial snake would like that stuff. I would never not give hogs substrate, that's just me. I'm unhappy with the aspen though, as much as the snakes like to tunnel around in it. I'm still looking for that "excavation sand" stuff."
>>>>>>Your right, a terrestrial would probably do better. I was thinking maybe half the tank could be a sand clay mix...in order for them to be able to dig around in the stuff...and have a divider for the other side and use that for the water bowl and deco and climb stick....not really sure if they like to climb or not...maybe you can help with that one.

"These are very active snakes! Even though they like to hide, you are more likely to observe them in action than a pet rock - er, ball python."
>>>>>>>I like the idea they are active and wouldn't be under ground all the time. The pvc tubing is a nice way I think I can accomplish that. I have no idea if they have a dirt enclosure will they defecate on the surface or in one of their tunnels? Any idea?

Ya I gather that BP's are rather the show "Dog's" of the snake world. They are pretty to look at, but have dull personalities.....lol I never had that problem with my RT's, they were always looking to get into something...loved being handled. They were fun to watch, but then again I would let them roam around freely at times. They could find the smallest places to get into though....getting one out of the bottom of a couch was easy....but you learn to seal up the places you don't want them to go...trial and error.

They mostly let themselves halfway out of their hiding spot and use their hide or water bowl as a vantage point. Younger ones are a lot more frisky though (FOOD)!

Don't worry, they'll poop all over the place. That's their way of showing they love you.

BPs are awesome but it's a letdown to go to a show and see thousands of royals and maybe fifteen hognose.
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

I haven't been to a show in years...so it will be very different for me when I actually get to go to one in late Aug...

Most of the shows I can remember were at a Snake Farm, about 60 miles south of me.....it's been there for over 30 yrs...they had/still have lot's of snakes. During the summer months though..it's pretty smelly.

I watched a couple guys youtube vid's that went to some of the bigger shows....they must had a Hero camera on their head or chest....it was pretty good, I saw pretty much what was going on....a lot of stop and looking on my end....always the case you see something you want more of and then poof, they move on! Yikes... Ton's of Ball's in those plexiglass containers...only a month to go though....ha!

Boy I must be in a mode or something, hahahahahahahaha

If your talking about need, and need only, you the keeper does not need to at any heat.

If your room will get 85F without heating that's all you need.

All you need to do is not let the room get over 85F in the summer and not under, say 50 to 60F in the winter.

That's how lots and lots of commercial breeders do it. Best wishes

Austin, a couple of things, What does commercial have to do with it? Consider, the minimum requirement for a living animal is to reproduce. Commercial setups must achieve that or they are indeed not commercial. What makes a commercial setup is a minimum sized cage, the smallest cage that allows recruitment. not the maximum or anywhere inbetween.

You as a private keeper can offer you captives more and include behaviors that entertain you and support the animal.

My first question here(started people hating on me) was, anyone keep a hog in a way that is hog. You know, use that body and nose for its intended purpose.

That question bothers folks and a lot. Consider, I never said anybody had to do that, I simply asked is anyone did.

Back to the subject. A commercial breeder must support the animal to reproduce and only that, most are excellent at that. You as a private keeper, can offer more, and more for both you and the snakes in boxes.

As a cage builder and zoo exhibit builder, and keeper, folks ask me, whats the best cage. My answer is simple, a big box with big doors and one that can hold lots of substrate. The big doors are REQUIRED, so I can take everything out(that I thought was important) and replace it with something else that "may" be important or useful, you know, try again.

My concern with what I read about you Austin is, your looking for an instruction sheet to keeping hops. No offense, hogs are colubrids and they are about as easy as it gets to keep(alive) The question is, what will keep you entertained and learning.(having fun)

If you look(study) this forum, you have morph folks, and related genetic folks, and almost no actual keepers(husbandry is defined as, to support) very few(there are some, Gregg comes to mind) that can do support and morphs/genetics. Many here cannot or do not have a handle on living animals(hogs are living animals) so they break it down to math, morphs and genetics.

TBC Thanks

Notes from the field(which is where hogs are from)

They use mass heat(substrate) to guide their behaviors. At times of the year, the mass temps are too cool, then they bask. Often, by sticking their head and neck out of a hole and flattening out to increase the surface area.
About belly and back heat,

The problem i see with keepers is, they make determinations on what they think the animals want, which is great, only they offer these tools in a out of context way, or a A or Z type of approach, which is, its this or that, not this "and" that(a current commercial) In the case of snakes, its always, this and that and what is picked is about timing, conditions, and need. Then place behavior on top of that.

That behavior is/can be regional. For instance, in the northern parts of their range, basking is far more common, therefore becomes a behavioral priority. Down here in the southwest, basking is rare as the mass temps heat up very quickly to more then needed, in aprox 10 months of the year. So behaviorally, seeking suitably low temps becomes a priority.

About cages, I wish, and you all know this, folks would shop with the thought of what type of cage will add to my captives life, more then what is spiffy and easy to clean and fits in a small area(end of rant) Best wishes

Yeah, the tile is used as a weight to hold down his little hide box. I got frustrated with trying to find things to hold down hides, and I discovered, that cheap tiles at Home Depot or Lowes work great, and are usually less than a few bucks. The PC tube is for hiding as well. He likes to cruise thru it, and hide sometimes. He like both, but I do see him in the hide box more.

That plastic box is an older Rubbermaid Boot Box, the next size up from the original Rubbermaid Shoeboxes, from long ago, in the nineties. I do have it though in a homemade wooden rack, along with other boxes.

Now, all of my boxes/snake cages, I get at The Container Store.

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Genesis 1:1

That's nice....I'll have to check out The Container Store in my area.....it's been a while since I've been to it. I used to have to avoid that place, da wife would think it was xmas and buy every thing in sight in there. She was a container freak! Had more plastic boxes than knew what to do with.....but they were big ones...not the small ones we are talking about...

Do you think yours would climb though the tubing if more links were attached? Sorta like a mini Jungle Gym? Like the photo below...just not as elaborate...lol

Yeah, the boxes I buy at The Container Store are crystal clear, and are great.

" Do you think yours would climb though the tubing if more links were attached? Sorta like a mini Jungle Gym? Like the photo below...just not as elaborate...lol "

I don't know..he may.

My Bairds ratsnake, shown here, since she is not a yearling yet, but a 2012, I have a smaller PVC pipe in hers, and she likes it. She curls up in it almost as much as in her hide.

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Genesis 1:1

{DISCERN} wrote:
{Yeah, the boxes I buy at The Container Store are crystal clear, and are great.

My Bairds ratsnake, shown here, since she is not a yearling yet, but a 2012, I have a smaller PVC pipe in hers, and she likes it. She curls up in it almost as much as in her hide. }

That was another thing, clear vs opaque....since both are available..you have no problems with the clear?

Your Ratsnake looks very similar to our very common Texas Rat Snake here. Those little buggers climb walls and will get into anything if it knows food is available. They have a very nasty attitude also! I had one last year on my back porch, trying to get to a birds nest.

Here is a short video of one trying to get to a bird nest in a rain gutter. He wanted so bad to climb to get to it...but the vinyl siding was just to slippery! He was about 6 foot. Usually they are very aggressive, but this guy was pretty calm. Head shape was just like the one in your photo.....

Do you handle your much if any?

{My Invader Texas Rat Snake}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfqeg2EFtrg

Oh yea, I handle my Bairds quite frequently.

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Genesis 1:1

How long is your Rat snake now?

Is he/she a good eater?

Where do you get your feeders?

" How long is your Rat snake now? "
Not sure. Almost a yearling, so maybe almost 2 feet?

" Is he/she a good eater? "

Oh yeah, she very much is.

" Where do you get your feeders? "

American Rodent Supply and Big Cheese Rodents.

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Genesis 1:1

"American Rodent Supply and Big Cheese Rodents."
>>>>>>>Cool.....looked at the prices for both of them. American Rodent is in Indiana, do you know where Big Cheese is out of? I would imagine to get past the shipping cost a order of years worth would be in order....ha!

Only problem I see with this is....aren't they stuck together? How do you select an amount that you want to thaw to feed? Or are they frozen so fast they don't stick to each other?

Big Cheese is in Fort Worth, TX.
None of the mice, from either place, are stuck together. You are able to get out exactly how many/much you want.
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Genesis 1:1

Hmmmm that's about you and mammals, hogs do that system, underground. Its exactly what they do underground, and even have the pop ups.

Your asking the question, will they use it, the answer is yes, and they will use it in hopes of finding somewhere to burrow, which is where and how they live, and why they have that nose and body.

oh oh, how about putting the boxes one the bottom of the tubes and fill them with a sandy soil. Then the hogs would go from box to box. Each box could be a test, you know, different soil and different temps, etc. Dang and I am serious, that would be a great way to keep a hog and have fun and learn.

Seriously, that would be great, just flip the boxes underneath the tubes and fill them with substrate. Sir, you just came up with a teaching cage. Best wishes

Thanks for sharing!
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Heck ya Troy!
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Genesis 1:1

Look pal, there's no such thing as "my one hog"...pick up the pace and get that critter some lovin'!
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You ever talk to me like that again...and I'll turn your balls into earrings. Understand?

Go for it.

HA HA! I know, right?!
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Genesis 1:1