Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There is obviously some difference in a cal king that is displaying both the lavender and hypermelanistic gene at the same time. Some are darker and some are lighter.

Here are three cal kings from the same clutch of double het parents (lavender & hypermelanistic). One is an obvious lavender, one is an obvious Purple Passion, and one is what appears to be a in betweener, so.......

It seems that when a cal king is displaying 2 recessive genes at the same time, all is not equal. It seems that although both genes are being displayed at the same time, one gene can be more powerful than the other.........

Kerby...

-----
Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

I really like that very yellow banded "coastal" phenotype individual myself!

~Doug
-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com/index.htm

That is just a typical lavender.

Kerby...
-----
Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

>>It seems that when a cal king is displaying 2 recessive genes at the same time, all is not equal. It seems that although both genes are being displayed at the same time, one gene can be more powerful than the other.........

Interesting....Thanks for the insight.
You have some interesting stuff going on over there. Take for example the hypo looking offspring you produce that are triple hets....Maybe the "hypo" gene is expressing it self sorta like a "marker."
We all know we just use the term "hypo" to describe the way the animal looks and we don't know for sure if it is true hypomelanism going on or not.......it sure does fit the definition most of the time though....lol

I know we've discussed this elsewhere, but do you think there are different "lavender" lines. Much like there are different "hypo" lines? Are they compatible? Are there different degrees of hypomelanism? Or are there different degrees in which an animal expresses Tyrosinase Positive? Are there super forms?

Then there are Merker's El Dorado "Hypos"....He once called them Blonde Phase......Not to be confused with the Elfin Forest Blue Eyed Blondes......As you stated there is still alot to figure out. No one knows what is compatible and what isn't.....Nor if some of these traits are Tyrosinase Positive or not.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

**Take for example the hypo looking offspring you produce that are triple hets....Maybe the "hypo" gene is expressing it self sorta like a "marker."**

Something is going on....and I don't have an answer. It first started about 10 years ago when I bred a albino to a lavender and one of the double hets came out looking "hypo", but yet ALL the babies were double hets. And of course breeding the Ghost and Hypo have produced some CRAZY looking double hets in color and pattern.

**We all know we just use the term "hypo" to describe the way the animal looks and we don't know for sure if it is true hypomelanism going on or not**

All the snakes that I have produced and am calling hypo came from a hypo cal king. I have produced NUMEROUS cal kings that look hypo, but I do not call them that. To me it should genetically predictable (recessive) and not just a look. But I do not know why when mixing recessive genes the hets are looking different.

**I know we've discussed this elsewhere, but do you think there are different "lavender" lines. Much like there are different "hypo" lines? Are they compatible? Are there different degrees of hypomelanism? Or are there different degrees in which an animal expresses Tyrosinase Positive? Are there super forms?**

Without a doubt there are numerous recessive genes in the cal king world that are not compatible.......but us humans like to label everything and therein lies the confusion. Terms like albino, hypo, hyper, etc. are legit genetic terms and then we add stuff like lavender, blizzard, snow, ghost, purple passion, etc into the mix lol

Kerby...
-----
Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.

" ...do you think there are different "lavender" lines?"

Lemke had two kinds of Lavenders on his old list, JR strain and JD strain. One was described as more lavender with ruby eyes and the other as more brownish with garnet colored eyes.

They aren't compatible but they've both been around a very long time that there could be all sorts of combos out there, ie JR het for JD, JD het for JR and double homozygous JRJD as well, skewing results.

Not to mention tons of cb generic Cal Kings in the trade probably carry genes from coastal San Diego county kings which naturally produce ones that look very much like hypos as babies but grow into just nice brown and yellow Cal Kings as adults.

Plus Hypos, Lavenders and T-Posetives of any species can vary quite a bit depending upon what they would have looked like as normals. Too much stuff to comprehend...
-----
www.hcu-tx.org/

>>" ...do you think there are different "lavender" lines?"
>>
>>Lemke had two kinds of Lavenders on his old list, JR strain and JD strain. One was described as more lavender with ruby eyes and the other as more brownish with garnet colored eyes.
>>
>>They aren't compatible but they've both been around a very long time that there could be all sorts of combos out there, ie JR het for JD, JD het for JR and double homozygous JRJD as well, skewing results.
>>
>>Not to mention tons of cb generic Cal Kings in the trade probably carry genes from coastal San Diego county kings which naturally produce ones that look very much like hypos as babies but grow into just nice brown and yellow Cal Kings as adults.
>>
>> Plus Hypos, Lavenders and T-Posetives of any species can vary quite a bit depending upon what they would have looked like as normals. Too much stuff to comprehend...
>>-----
>>www.hcu-tx.org/

Yep...Forgot about John Ruiz and J. Dyer Lavenders.....But even one of those could've been a hypo...the garnet eyed ones....lol
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

I wonder if the JR is a true Lavender or maybe a T-pos and the JD might be the same as the Merker hypos. Animals like the Merker hypo have popped up in multiple places near El Dorado and by San Jose and elsewhere but I don't think anybody knows if they're allelic.
-----
www.hcu-tx.org/

>>I wonder if the JR is a true Lavender or maybe a T-pos and the JD might be the same as the Merker hypos. Animals like the Merker hypo have popped up in multiple places near El Dorado and by San Jose and elsewhere but I don't think anybody knows if they're allelic.
>>-----
>>www.hcu-tx.org/

And that was my point.....There is so much to figure out still after all of these years, but if there are double homozygotes out there (JD and JR) then it just makes it tougher to figure out. Then throw BEBs into the mix....

I think our buddy Shannon bred a wild caught hypo-ish El Dorado california king to a Merker line Hypo and produced hypos.....Maybe the light coloration isn't even "hypo." Maybe its just a clinal variation/polymorphism.....
-----
John Lassiter
Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...

>>There is obviously some difference in a cal king that is displaying both the lavender and hypermelanistic gene at the same time. Some are darker and some are lighter.
>>
>>Here are three cal kings from the same clutch of double het parents (lavender & hypermelanistic). One is an obvious lavender, one is an obvious Purple Passion, and one is what appears to be a in betweener, so.......
>>
>>It seems that when a cal king is displaying 2 recessive genes at the same time, all is not equal. It seems that although both genes are being displayed at the same time, one gene can be more powerful than the other.........
>>
>>
>>
>>Kerby...
>>
>>-----
>>Life is like a bunch of fish in an aquarium....we all get along (bonding) until I want to eat you....and I do.
>>
>>
>>

Very Nice Kerby!
-----
www.mesozoicreptiles.com

From your website, I've noticed when you breed those recessive hypermelanistic kings, you often get some hets that look like hypermelanistic Long Beach Grease kings. You've even had some stripers with this type of hypermel or what we call hypermel. We could easily call it a reduced light pattern. But it seems when you breed these recessive hypers (Delta, Baja, Whittiers) from wild caughts or locality animals, they don't produce those hyper looking hets. Your in betweener looks like one of those hyper hets.
-----