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Ok, remember the "constipated" panther chameleon that I thought was possibly egg bound also? Well, I took her to the vet yesterday and she was definately egg bound. It looked like her whole body was full of eggs in the X-Ray. It's kinda weird because she had laid a large clutch (33 I think) on July 24th, and then August 28th (8 weeks later) she was acting like she was ready again, so I put her in the container and had 12 tiny eggs the next morning. I've never seen so few eggs or such small eggs and after 2 weeks all but 2 had died (infertile). Kinda stumped me. But now in the last few weeks she's been gaining weight rapidly and eating like crazy without going to the bathroom more than once a week. So yesterday at the vet she was 20 grams higher than she had ever been before and looked like she was going to pop (literally). My vet gave her a shot of Oxytocin and said to see what happened. So I brought her home last night and Gave her some quiet time (usually Oxytocin kicks out eggs within an hour). I checked on her every hour or so and she was just pacing her bucket in circles (egg laying container). This morning there was no eggs and when I got home from work a few hours ago, there was 1 egg sitting on top of the soil. I'm pretty bummed. This is my oldest female panther, and her alone has laid almost 100 fertile eggs. She's from the beautiful Tassadar bloodline from Kammerflage Kreations. So the vet gave me a few options. She is going to see her again tomorrow and either put her to sleep or go for the full on surgery to remove them, which she thinks that my chameleon probably wouldn't survive anyway. My vet said she has done these before on chameleons and the outcome has been generally bad. Even if they survive the surgery, they become totally helpless for a long time afterwards. It kinda sucks for me cause either way it's gonne be bad. I don't know what to do. I've already spent more on this that I paid for her and I hate to keep prolinging her life if she's going to suffer in the end and possibly or probably not make it anyways..... What do you all think?

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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

Oh Tyler, I'm so sorry to hear about this horrible situation. Either way, the outcome is so crummy...I would not want to be in your situation. Is there, by any chance, another vet in the area that has had more success with this surgery? I wonder if some of those eggs are fused together or something. I would definitely not let her suffer, so either one of those options is a must, it seems.

I'm not even sure what *I* would do...and this is coming from a person who spent way more than my horse was worth to save him, and currently has a three-legged dog who had to have her leg amputated and go through chemo because of bone cancer (who is doing WONDERFULLY I might add!)

I'm so sorry Tyler...I wish I could help you in your decision.

Kristen
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1.1 pygmy leaf
1.0 carpet
1.0 jackson

damn bro .. so sorry to hear it
i have never experianced egg boundness, but my females in the last have had a few problems laying ... it freaked me out
best of luck, and i know what you choose to do will be the best thing possible

Jason
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Jason
f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/dank7oo
1.0 maroantsetra panther chameleon
0.2 dwarf panther chameleons
jsinger_jimt@hotmail.com

Tyler-

Has anyone had any success with Oxytocin? In the x-ray could you notice any eggs that were bigger then normal or bound together, also any abnormal amount of food/waste? I had a gut feeling this was going to be the case only because she has been noted for retaining eggs. You are in a bind here so to speak (no point intended). Either way you choose, the outcome will be no more future eggs. If you put her to sleep that is the end of her bloodline, if you do the surgery, she has a chance of living, but should never be bred again, so this situation dose not repeat its self. As bad as this sounds, with her past record putting her down may be your best option. The one egg that was deposited, was it a normal size egg and well calsified? Best of luck with her!
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John W. Lucas

CHAMELEON PARADISE

CHAMELEONS ONLINE E-ZINE AUTHOR

Feeding Baby Chameleons
Caging Baby Chameleons

F. pardalis

Ambilobe Locale
Nosy Be Locale
Sambava Locale

Rhampholeon uluguruensis

Eggs Incubating-

F. pardalis - Ambilobe Locale

got SILKWORMS!

Photo © Chameleon Paradise 2003

We got another egg this afternoon that was also bright white, but had a yellowish tip on one end. She went the bathroom again and looks ok still. She's alert as ever and has plenty of energy. I don't know what's gonna happen. I do know of a case where oxytocin worked on a leopard lizard to me and one of my friends (we kept a pair together) and it was a similar situation where she was really late and looked like she was dying and HUGE. The vet gave her a shot in the wrist and about 45 minutes later the eggs were coming out quick. Seemed to work good back then. She lived for another 2 years after that. The vet I am using was recommended by other reptile keepers here and also by a guy I'm friends with who is a horse vet and says she's the best reptile/chameleon vet in town. She seems to know what she's talking about. She's taught me alot. I don't doubt her knowledge, I'm just split on this decision. I'll call her in the morning and see what she thinks about the eggs dropping today. We may wait a few more days to see what develops. I'm really hoping on coming home and seeing her crawling the cage bottom looking for a place to lay. Talk about dream come true.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

Hi Tyler,
This is longshot, but I have read that giving a liquid calcium can help with eggbound females for a couple of reasons. I guess they can't lay the eggs until they have calcified properly, so it helps with that and also gives them more strength to lay.

I have no experience with female Panthers (I've only had males) I'm just remembering this from things I've read.

Anyway, you might want to ask your vet about this just in case...

Good luck!

Jennifer

I feel for you and this is indeed a tough dillema.
I suggest contacting Ivan alfonso, and get his point of view. After all, he is a vet that has a lot, if not the most experience
with pnather chams. It might make your decision making easier. Tyler, May i ask what is her size snout to vent?

Her shout to vent size is just over 5 inches, about 5 1/4". She's not small or anything. Just one of those things that happens I guess. She dropped another egg today, making it 3 now total.
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Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
1.2 Nosy Be Panthers
2.2 Sambava Panthers
1.0 Tamatave Panther
1.0 Nosy Be X Unknown Cross
1.1 Veiled Chameleons
0.0.2 CBB Desert Tortoises
0.0.1 Sulcatta Tortoise

Hey Tyler, I had the exact same thing happen to one of my female panthers. You already are familiar with my situation. But the part where she laid one egg on the surface is exactly what happened to mine. And this was only 6 weeks after laying the first clutch. I asked the breeder about this and his prognosis was that she probably would die if she didnt lay soon. NOt only that, dirt got into her eye and she kept them closed. I was expecting her to die, but after a week, she finally dug a hole and laid all her eggs. All the eggs went bad after 2 weeks. But shes back to normal and healthy. I did'nt do anything special. I didn't do the oxitocin which was suggested to me. Hope your female drops them soon.

I know there have been successful spays done on female chams so I would get a second opinion. I even know of a quad who survived a C-section AND a spay a few months later! If your female does survive to lay her eggs you will have to do some major juggling of her diet to stop or slow the endless cycle of egg development. There is a keeper on the Topica.com chameleonjournals forum who has worked with F. cephalolepis (also known as a dwarf panther) and has had some luck stopping or reducing egg cycling in her females. Check for a member named Elisa.

I know it seems a bit heartless, but remember that female panther chams are not long lived creatures. They are just not built to have as many clutches (or as large) as is possible in captivity. Hope she does OK.