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I was a bit surprised by what I saw when the first one came out. The sire is a goblin aka alabaster and the Dam was a hypo pos het axanthic and peanut butter.
And this is a clutch mate
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Congrats!
Looks like you got a Jelly Alabster and not just an Alabaster.
Alabaster = Peanut butter/hypo/ axanthic homo
Jelly Alabaster = Jelly/hypo/axanthic homo
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Hey thanks I'm pretty happy.
Why are you calling the quad visual a jelly alabaster? That makes it sound like a 5 gene animal. I call them jelly ghosts when I talk about them.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Why are you calling the quad visual a jelly alabaster? That makes it sound like a 5 gene animal. I call them jelly ghosts when I talk about them.
Well for one they are not a quad visual. Not sure how you got that?
Since I as the one who bred created the jelly and bred that into the Ghost I have tried to explain how the jelly-Peanut butter and T negative trait works to hundreds of people. Still they cannot understand how this trait works when combined with other traits. So I kept that in mind when coming up with hat I call the 123 line and that basically means the Jelly-PB-T negt combined with the Ghost...aka Axanthic and hypo..
The Alabster is a triple homo. The best way to explain to people how the PB and T neg genes work (because they share a locus on a single allele) is to look at the Peanut butter, T negative albino and Jelly as one in the same animal/morph. All three are not het for each other. therefore require some frustrating explanation when combined with other traits like the snow or Ghost.
I was the first person to create a triple homo and everyone else got the hets or alabasters from me.A few tried to rename themw hich happened with oteh rtraits I started or originated so it is nothing new to me..
I will explain a little of my reasoning for not giving the jelly alabster a seperate name.. And NO it does not make it sound like a quad het-I have no idea how you came up with that idea..,
Anyway. I try to keep somewhat of a theme with related animals that share the similar traits (ghosts in this case)and the Alabaster and Albescent keep that mineral color scheme since they are related. I didn't think it was a good idea to come up with a third for the jelly Alabaster because the PB and T neg are separate traits that people can wrap their minds around, whearas the jelly is a result of both of those traits..
Anyway, long story short I created and popularized them and that is what they are called.
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Um what? How many genes is the animal in question visually expressing?
Everything you said about the pb-jelly complex only further more shows why it's not an alabaster jelly and why it is a jelly ghost.
When you are deceiving an animal genetically you don't name the same gene twice which is what your name implies. Once you take the jelly part out of it all that's left is a ghost, NOT an alabaster. Therefore jelly ghost is a correct description. It really is that simple.
Where on earth did I type quad het? Please show that or where I even implied that because I don't know where YOU got that from.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Where on earth did I type quad het? Please show that or where I even implied that because I don't know where YOU got that from.
This is where you asaid it:
Why are you calling the quad visual a jelly alabaster? That makes it sound like a 5 gene animal. I call them jelly ghosts when I talk about them.
Why are you trippin on this dude. Don't stress.
#1
You popped out something for the first time.
#2
You didn't know what it was to begin with.
#3
Now you think you can rename it.LOL!
I would be willing to bet you still don't even know or understand how the whole Jelly thing works yet!
If you want to start a legit misnaming thing why don't you start a thread about the Calif kingsnake guys who naming a hypo a Ghost. What they have is not even a double homozygote and are calling it a "ghost". Good luck with your endevours!
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Where on earth did I type quad het? Please show that or where I even implied that because I don't know where YOU got that from.
This is where you asaid it:
Why are you calling the quad visual a jelly alabaster? That makes it sound like a 5 gene animal. I call them jelly ghosts when I talk about them.
^ I don't see where I typed it was a quad het anywhere. Please don't change what I say because you want someone to argue with.
Why are you trippin on this dude. Don't stress.
^im not tripping or stressing. I asked a simple question respectfully without any tone.
#1
You popped out something for the first time.
#2
You didn't know what it was to begin with.
^ I was pretty sure of what if was but if you read my initial post explaining the breeding you should be able to see where the confusion comes. I had a pos het pb not a pos het T- which was a pleasant surprise. Now who sold a mislabeled animal? Lol
#3
Now you think you can rename it.LOL!
Where do you get I naming it? I'm only describing it. If I was renaming it that would be calling it a topaz or someone thing else. (Just keeping up with your theme)
I would be willing to bet you still don't even know or understand how the whole Jelly thing works yet!
Rainer please do not try and insult my intelligence. You will not be capable of doing it. These genes work together just like (in bps) a super stripe does.
If you want to start a legit misnaming thing why don't you start a thread about the Calif kingsnake guys who naming a hypo a Ghost. What they have is not even a double homozygote and are calling it a "ghost". Good luck with your endevours!
There's mislabeling all over the place. No reason to keep doing more of it.
BTW the female true hybino I have that was supposed to be an albescent, came from you as an albescent. Not that I really cared as these are just a neat side project.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Rainer, do you know when the first hypo-anery or hypo-axanthic was called a ghost and do you know what species it was?
I know I heard the Cal Kings being called ghost in the 1990's and I think it was prior to 1996 but I'm not 100% sure. I think the guy who named it was more into locality snakes, not morphs, so when he found/produced the first ghost Cal King he probably would not have been aware of anybody using that name.
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www.hcu-tx.org/
Rainer, do you know when the first hypo-anery or hypo-axanthic was called a ghost and do you know what species it was?
I know I heard the Cal Kings being called ghost in the 1990's and I think it was prior to 1996 but I'm not 100% sure. I think the guy who named it was more into locality snakes, not morphs, so when he found/produced the first ghost Cal King he probably would not have been aware of anybody using that name
I don't know when the first Ghost term was used. hmm, probably the Cornssnakes..I dunno??( I was never into corns)and I have to look into that. Sometimes referring to and checking Bechtels book helps since he was sort of the father of naming morphs.But even then folks do what they want top do to make a name for themselves. Maybe FR has some input if his memory is still intact. 
I know that the Ghost (aka Palomar) Cal kings were names Ghost and so was a hypo Rosy boa. Neither one used the Cornsmake "rule book" which was definetly precident before the Calif Ghost or Rosy ghost or many other misnamed recessive traits.. Now we have Ball pythons which are mostly codoms so nobdy cares but the few recessive are also names improperly..and new Cal kings with all sorts of names like Pink Pearl Ghost ect.JUST CRAZY! T tell ya I have no idea why when every no-nothing produces a snake that I created years ago all of a sudden is the know-it-all and wants to rename things. But that is the people this hobby attracts..I I wish we did all could stick to basic cornsake rules. I am and always have been on that side of the fence.
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Where's the like button?
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~ Jorge Sierra www.SierraSnakes.com
Look me up on Face Book as well!
Hhmm that would be a neat addition to the site.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Everything you said about the peanut butter-jelly complex only further more shows why it's not an alabaster jelly and why it is a jelly ghost.
Well first of all is impossible for a Alabaster to carry a fourth gene (or fifth as you alluded to) because it would be impossible for the Jelly to be an additional trait to the Peanut butter because the Jelly and Peanut butter are one in the same animal.. The Jelly and PB share an allele on a single locus. So anyone htinking a Jelly is an additional trait is not familiar with the genetics and should not be buying into something they don’t undertand or know much about. As in your case you got them in trade and have been asking questions and sending pictures to me over the past months since acquiring them.
As far as the name “Alabaster”..I coined the name Alabaster because the they looked like the mineral Alabaster and were opaque in appearance. So I wanted the name to resemble the color. Also the Jelly alabaster and PB look very similar except the Jelly Albaster is more opaue and glossy. But still very similar looking so it did not derve to have a separate name to cause any confusion. So I thought it was best instead of coming up with a new name. It made sense to call it a Jelly Alabster since they are visual in the jelly form instead of the peanut butter form. They have been called Alabster and jelly alabaster for years now since I started producing them.
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Also, I did consider the name “Peanut Butter ghost” because first. But it does not work because morphs have evolved since and most people are not aware oif the new genetics and older traits are the ones improperlay name like the “Ghost”. For instance a hybino is Albino and Axanthic. However the lavender came out first and that combined with the hypo was called “Hybino. But now we have the true albino (the T negative albino with red eyes) . The first named hybinos everyone knows is a Lavender and not a T negative “true albino. Today we have the true hybinos and you even have one you got from Jeremy. They are nothing like the Lavender x Hypo strin. The ghost term is also misleading since the Peanut Butter is a type of hypo. It was just the first hypo came and that name was taken. So I had to come up with a new name after I bred the Peanut butter to the hypo proving to folks it was a different gene. Yes I had to prove to folks here that is was a different gene. And that was like 12 years ago.
When you are deceiving an animal genetically you don't name the same gene twice which is what your name implies. Once you take the jelly part out of it all that's left is a ghost, NOT an alabaster. Therefore jelly ghost is a correct description. It really is that simple.
The only person deceived is you! The fact you have been sending pictures to everyone asking what you have and this not just the jelly Alabster. You sent me pics asking all the time what morphs you have because you get them without knowing proper background.
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
Man, I really love the bottom two (still in the egg). Please post pics as soon as they are out, and congrats on the sweet clutch!
I'll definitely get some pics posted. I can't wait for the rest of them to come out.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Please remember to discuss ISSUES, not engage in personal attacks.
Posts and replies that violate our Terms of Service will be removed. Persistent violators will be banned.
Community Review
kingsnake.com
Thank you, is there anywhere to report abusive emails? It's really ridiculous that grown men act like such little immature spoiled children with a huge ego over snakes in a tub.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
LOL! There was nothing "abusive" in my email to you that I had not said here. Matter of fact I asked you in my last post to take it to email rather than fill this forum and you want to continue your fracas here as you are doing now.
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
LOL! There was nothing "abusive" in my email to you that I had not said here. Matter of fact I asked you in my last post to take it to email rather than fill this forum and you want to continue your fracas here as you are doing now.
Yet again you are wrong. You have made 4 posts in a row replying to me when I've made 0 to you. They are are filled with petty little insults and misinformation just as your email was. Just because of a simple question, I have a question for you. Are you bipolar?
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Yet again you are wrong. You have made 4 posts in a row replying to me when I've made 0 to you. They are are filled with petty little insults and misinformation just as your email was. Just because of a simple question, I have a question for you. Are you bipolar?
.
As far as replying in several posts. This site has a limit on how many words can go on one post. It only allows so many words in one post.So I had to break it up by continued posts..
That is why it says "Continued" .
BTW since I never got a public apology from you after proving you wrong the first time.And now being called names.I am going to act like a bipolar person and complain to the mods if they have a place for non-apologies after being powned..WAA WAAA~!
LOL! 
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
BTW since I never got a public apology from you after proving you wrong the first time.And now being called names.I am going to act like a bipolar person and complain to the mods if they have a place for non-apologies after being powned..WAA WAAA~!
Wrong twice yet again, you haven't proved me wrong on anything and I did not call you any names. I asked a question and now you have now replied with more childish BS.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Wrong twice yet again, you haven't proved me wrong on anything and I did not call you any names
HA HA HA.. OMG I give up ..
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
> Please remember to discuss ISSUES, not engage in personal attacks.
Posts and replies that violate our Terms of Service will be removed. Persistent violators will be banned. . <
*That is a nice sentiment but most of us that just peek in from time to time because we got tired of the nonsense and don't come here anymore know it's just a bluff and the staff won't do anything. The only one that's in danger of being banned is me for saying this. The people parading rampant egomania and disrespect toward others know you will not ban them.
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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.
Excellent point Bob, And you are right the only one in danger of getting banned is you, and now me for supporting your statement. I have been banned several times in the past for speaking my mind, and just stopped going into the forums cold turkey about 2 yrs ago. I have only been drawn in by a good friend of mine, who will remain nameless as I don't want to see him banned.He wanted me to see that I am far from alone in being totally disgusted by the "rampant egomania and disrespect towards others". Take care. Howie
Ha!
Love my snakes, love spending time with them, Love interacting with them and just hanging out. They are living art work and good therapy for what ales you in life at times. The people, generally speaking, not so much.... Lol
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"If people are only good because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein.
Beautiful post.
Beautiful snake.
Beautiful snake inside beautiful post.
Nothing else needs to be said.
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Genesis 1:1
Great looking hatchlings!
cheers, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing" 
serpentinespecialties.webs.com/index.htm
Thanks man, great book too! You should of thought about a little pop up section with a nursery rhyme section for some. They may of had a better understanding of genetics with that lol.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
LOL! Yeah, we never considered that. We were trying to target a very broad range of readers that possessed anywhere between basic to very advanced reading comprehension skills and snake experience. That's a great idea though. I guess we could think about doing something later on in an interactive "pop-up" form that would appeal to the toddlers to elementary school level kids at some point. After all, kids and slower adults that cannot read or comprehend well should still be able to enjoy the exciting world of snakes too.
cheers, ~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com/index.htm
I really think that there is a select few that this would appeal greatly to. Probably would result in a lot less rhetoric on here when people try to post and have friendly discussions. You may be able to make snack trays where you can have edible paste and crayons as well? Nothing wrong with munching while you read or look at pretty pictures.
At the end of the day we are only responsible for what we say, not what other people comprehend and that's a beautiful thing. I still don't understand the ego that comes with some folks about having snakes in tubs. Could you imagine some of these people if they actually did something worthy of importance with their lives?
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Well said!, and I couldn't agree more about all that.
Hmmm, maybe some edible snake shapes that have appealing food/desert names!
~Doug
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"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"
serpentinespecialties.webs.com/index.htm
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Those look pretty cool! "Jelly-ghosts" seems self explanatory ... Wth is an alabastard!? Jelly-alabastard!? Silly name that results in confusion... Call um what you feel C personally "jelly ghost" seems to better explain the genes involved
So "peanut butter" and "jelly" one in the same animal... WRONG! Are we forgetting the amel gene is at work in "jellies"
Peanut butter and amel are both recessives that are not completely dominant over each other (and ONLY each other)because both mutations affect genes on the same locus. Combining the two genes creates a 3rd mutation which is an intermediate of both parental genes... Nothing too complex about it even when other genes are involved
"Jelly" is phenotypically similar to a "lavender albino" in that, both produce small amounts of melanin as they mature the melanin accumulated under the skin resulting in a tan/lavender/brown color. In that sense "jelly" is a sort of "Hybino"
Lavender x "hypo" = hybino
Lavender x "PB" = Hybino
Amel t- x "hypo" = Hybino
Amel t- x "PB" = Hybino
Now you've got a hypo-jelly it's sorta a "super Hybino" since the "hypo" morph enhances color.
I'm gonna start labeling snakes based on genetics only... Avoid the silliness I've just read.
Thanks Z!
I try to post some pics for fun and liven up the place a bit and well you saw what nonsense took place. It's really sad to have people act like that.
Like I said when I described the animal I say it's a jelly ghost because after you describe the jelly part all that's left is a ghost. I thought it was simple enough. I really wasn't trying to "name" or take credit for anyone's previous breedings etc. just having a civil discussion. Can't do that with everyone I see.
I prefer to avoid the silliness myself. The last thing I have time for is a childish immature name calling contest over the Internet. What good would come of that?
One thing I always say is when a idiot is arguing with you just make sure dont do the same. I do my best to make sure I don't.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
I prefer to avoid the silliness myself. The last thing I have time for is a childish immature name calling contest over the Internet. What good would come of that?
One thing I always say is when a idiot is arguing with you just make sure dont do the same. I do my best to make sure I don't.
But I am "bipolar' remember? At least that is what you said I was in a post the mods erased. Oh wait..Now I am an idiot??/ or am I childish and immature? Hmm, can't make up which name to call me? heh heh!
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
If that's the way you want to interpret that well then that's fine with me, I could care less. I didn't call you those names but if the shoe fits lace that thing up and wear it. I will not get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Have a good day.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
I will not get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent
OH snap! And how old are you and that phrase ? 11? ..12..?
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"So I will end with, your now aware of the problem, what YOU do is entirely up to you. Now if you make THIS mistake, its not because you are ignorant."
Frank Retes
cool stuff Charlie
its nice to snatch up a project like that with so many
years invested in it and really still in its infancy. with nothing from your end except the $$$ ! W O W!!!
to produce such jewels that you don't seem to understand you really should have/show rainer at least some respect. fact is none of these combos would be available hadn't it been for him and the years hes put into the fla.morphs.
zenny is totally WRONG saying that jelly is a hybino.
jelly is a double homo but its not lavender or hypo wich has always been the standard in hybino its pb&Tneg very different and the sad thing is zenny knows that. so instead of arguing with rainer you should listen there is NO ONE who has put more time or understands them more than him, hell zenny got his from rainer hell everyone did. ive always gone to the cow for milk course if ya wanna go to the market for your milk im sure there will be a representative there to tell you whats what.
good luck with them they are SMOKIN HOT.
,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
cool stuff Charlie
good luck with them they are SMOKIN HOT.
,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
Thank you Thomas! Yes I am very pleased with the results.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Nice babies Charlie.
Thanks mike, they don't compare to that thayeri though. That is sweet!
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
Don't forget about the "true hybino" that is a T- and hypo. Good post as usual Z
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
I think you got confused when you purchased them from another breeder who produced it from my stock and didn't know it was a true hybino and not an Albescent (triple homo T neg x hypo x axanthic).
^^ false. She came in the group as an albescent. Later on as she grew older she began to yellow. I didn't pay any attention to it (as it doesn't really matter to me) and zenny and Doug pointed it out. I emailed you a pic to see what you thought and when I told Jeremy about it he said really? She came from Rainer. I only produced a male and wanted a female. I do not believe Jeremy would lie to me like that. It really doesn't matter as I do not care either way.
but for whatever reason (like Zenny)..you guys pop something out and realize they are worth some money and then want to rename things because you got a keyboard.
^^ not even remotely close to the truth. I don't care what it's supposedly worth and I never tried to name it as a morph. I've already explained that several times to you and don't know how to say it any simpler. By me calling it a jelly ghost I'm only describing what it is genetically. I'm not giving a hobby.
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It's not about who's real to your face, it's about who's real behind your back.
Life is too short to stress yourself with people who don't even deserve to be an issue in your life
By me calling it a jelly ghost I'm only describing what it is genetically. I'm not giving a hobby.
>hey Charlie what do ya mean? jelly and ghost are hobby names just like alabaster which correct me if im wrong IS a jellyghost originally created and named by rainer.
doesn't seem to make sense you would accept jelly as a name but not alabaster please explain. you do realize rainer has decades in these mutations and has named them accordingly something the originator does in ALL morphs. just because you do not like a name doesn't give you the right to change it and it kinda seems thats what you are doing.
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
my website www.barmollysplace.com
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