Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Please fill us in on your tips, because even the most knowledgeable people do not know everything. Thank You !

There are MANY tried and true methods for successful rat and mouse breeding. I have been breeding my own snake food since the mid 70's and have probably tried most of the known methods. One of the most common methods used for decades is running "trios", or two females to a male per breeder box. For those that are unfamiliar with breeder boxes, they are generally a plastic box approximately 14 to 16 inches, by 10 to 12 inches wide and usually 6 to 8 inches deep. These can be professional lab-style with stainless steel (yeah right) tops, or home-made cat litter pans with wood frame wire mest tops with formed feeder trays. Either work equally well. While this system with a male per two females works fine, I am not suggesting this is the way to go. I stopped doing it this way in 1986. It took me a while to perfect it, but I began building large breeding tanks with a few males to many females. I would look through every day or two for pregnant females and when I found them I would segregate them three to a maternity box. This worked well for many years and I perfected it very little. I got out of the reptile business in 1991 and took a decade off. When I got back into the game a couple of years ago I decided this time around I would do everything the best it could be done. So I took what worked from the past and spent the last two years perfecting it. I now have a rat breeding facility that generates roughly 4000 to 8000 rats per month and takes us 20 to 40 minutes of maintenance per day (depending on what day of the week it is).

I kept the breeding tank/maternity box system and took it to new levels. Instead of multiple water bottles I built new systems with gravity flow auto-water valves. Instead of isolated maternity boxes with individual lids I built rack systems that the maternity boxes slide into. Instead of individual pre-formed wire food baskets I simply made huge resevoirs between the framework of each rack level. This resevoir only needs to be refilled about every 60 days. I will attach a couple of pictures of my maternity racks. In my rat facility there are two of these "maternity rack islands". When these pictures were taken I think they each had 3 or 4 levels. They each now have 5 levels. Each level has 14 tubs that each hold 4 pregnant or nursing females. That's approximately 56 females and their babies per level. Which equates to roughly 280 females per maternity island, or up to 560 females for both racks. Each female can have between 6 and 16 babies, though they usually have 10 on average. With this average the two maternity racks can hold up to 5600 babies at any one time. The babies and mothers remain in these racks for about 2 weeks and then they are moved to the "communal rack". This is a rack system almost identical in concept only the tubs are 30 inches by 20 (cement mixing tubs). In these tubs we consolidate 6 to 7 "moms" to 75 to 90 babies. They remain there until they wean 2 weeks later.

The breeding tanks are huge. They are constructed of plywood and wire mesh. They are 12 feet long by 2 feet deep and are divided in the middle to make two 6x2 breeding tanks per level. There are three levels on each wall making up 12 individual breeding tanks. These are built directly into the walls on either side of the facility. Unlike the old days these do not require any shavings or annoying shavings changings. Beneath each breeding tank is an elaborate yet simple system involving plastic sheet, recyled rat food bag and newspaper layers. These only need to be pulled out and replaced twice per week. The plastic sheet is permanent to prevent any urine from soaking into the plywood of the cage beneath. The maintenance on these takes less than 30 minutes twice weekly. A HUGE improvement on the old tub/shavings/scoop and change method which took hours and smelled bad. The feed delivery system on these tanks is pretty nifty too. I actually utilized the wall studs of the existing walls as food resevoirs. At the lowest-most tank it is blocked off with a slanted 2x4. Above the upper-most tank I constructed additional wooden containers that sluice the food into the wall spaces designated for their food delivery. These only have to be refilled about once per month. I can post pictures of these tanks if you want those too. One can be seen in the distance of the maternity rack picture here.

How this system works: Every 4 days I do a "preggo pull" which involves pulling the pregnant females from each tank and situating them in the maternity racks and the preggo tank. The preggo pull usually takes me about 40 minutes. These are my longest days. Because my systems are so simple and lack any serious time I have no need to hire an employee. It's really quite easy. All of the wall units and rack systems are also constructed roughly 28 inches above the floor. This was intentional so as to provide 100% of the available floor space for under tank storage for food bags and shavings, trash cans and other equipment.

In addition to what I have already mentioned there are "raiser tanks" with different "stage tanks" for rats to grow large in. If you are wondering about the colored clips on the maternity rack tubs, that is a color-code system I devised to make things even easier. Different colors for different stages of rat pups, as well as a different color for the condition of the shavings. Red means it needs to be changed real soon.

Well,. I hope this helps every herper that took the time to read it. That's what I am here for. Feel free to ask any questions and I will promptly answer them. I know that I left a lot out. There's a lot to this, but ironically, when it comes down to it, it's really very simple. To make things simple I suppose it takes elaborate and complex steps.

>>Please fill us in on your tips, because even the most knowledgeable people do not know everything. Thank You !

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"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

This angle shows the feed resevoir down the center of the rack.

-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

This picture was taken a couple of months ago but it still looks much like that now. The only difference is that I enlargened the feed baskets above the wall stud food resevoirs to hold a couple hundred additional pounds. But there is still the over tank storage area as well as the under tank storage area.

To explain the design a little better,... the solid plywood doors are hinged and literally cut out of solid plywood. (saves time in construction) The framework of these tanks is made out of 1x3 pine boards with full 2x4 upright supports on the end and in the middle. The rest is secured right to the wall with long screws. The back, sides and bottom of these tanks are covered in 1/2 inch wire mesh (hardware cloth). The rats pick their food right through the back of the tank where it rests against the wire at all times. The water lines run down each end and in the middle of the back down along the wall. 3 lines and valves per tank helps to ensure that a clog in one line or valve won't cause death. This has yet to occur, but I like to cover my bets. The tops of each unit is solid plywood so as to hold the plastic and paper levels of each waste-catch system.

Again,. any questions are welcomed. Due to the simplicity of this system I have nothing but time to kill. (Hey Poo, do you see now why I say my systems don't take any time?)

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"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

Now thats a Breeding system !! WOW!!

I wouldn't have the need for anything so big. I bet you have left overs from that system!!

Yes, I do have a few extras. A couple thousand or so, lol. I intentionally have this system at a level that exceeds my consumption needs for several reasons. One, I don't ever want to run short on food for my babies, and two, I sell the overage numbers to other breeders so as to eliminate overhead costs and to also generate additional supplimental income. It's a win win win situation. My snake food is free and I make a few bucks and I have the peace of mind knowing the health of the rats and rabbits my snakes eat. My rabbit systems are similar to the rat systems in that they have auto water systems and multiple females to just a few males, but they all have to have individual cages and are housed outside. I sold rabbits for a short while, but the market was not good enough to justify my time and so I stopped doing that. But the income from the rats easily covers the cost of raising the rabbits and so they are free too. We run approximately 60 adult female breeders at any one time and produce between 180 and 240 rabbits per month. We raise additional females to occasionally "cycle" and replace worn out breeders. We have only three males to these 60 females and they are VERY happy males. They each get to breed almost every night. Sometimes twice in a single night if breeding is slightly behind. I think I need to increase the number of females soon as we occasionally run out of feeders for our pythons. It's harder to do this than adding numbers to the rat breeders because I have to build new cages, lol.

Anyway, as always, if you have any questions just feel free to ask them and I will be more than happy to answer them.

>>Now thats a Breeding system !! WOW!!
>>
>>I wouldn't have the need for anything so big. I bet you have left overs from that system!!
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

Is it wierd that my two most wanted vacations include a couple weeks in the Amazon Rain Forest (might go next summer!!!) and then going to stay in brians front yard for a week. ??

I just can't get enough of all the stuff he has going on. It's gotta be a great job.

P.S. Have any fuzzy rats for sale? lol
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

Thanks Joel, I must say I didn't expect a response like this. Truly flattering. Now I'm going to sweeten the allure by saying that I don't even post 1/10th of what really goes on around here. With a lot of it, more awareness is NOT better.

It is a great "job" if you want to call it that. On my worst, most stressful days (yeah, I have a few, but the real "problem" is never really in the "work" but inside me) it does feel like work. But later or the next day I laugh at my silliness and truly see how good I have it.

Things are always expanding and while it is all very easy "work" I am also going to want to take lengthy breaks soon. The unfortunate aspect of this "work" is that it is daily without exception. If you take a day off, something falls behind. and in living things, when something is behind, it is not healthful for them. So basically we don't get any true day's off. So the 2 month vacations to the Amazon or to deepest, darkest, Indonesia are not possible. Because of this we have it in the planning to hire on full time help in terms of a managerial position starting at 30k with full benefits and one or two, part time "grunt work" positions for clean up and physical maintenance. This will take place by Feb or March of next year when the geometrical growth of this operation warrants it.

Yes, I have a couple of thousand fuzzy rats at any one time.

Thanks for the kind words.

>>Is it wierd that my two most wanted vacations include a couple weeks in the Amazon Rain Forest (might go next summer!!!) and then going to stay in brians front yard for a week. ??
>>
>>I just can't get enough of all the stuff he has going on. It's gotta be a great job.
>>
>>P.S. Have any fuzzy rats for sale? lol
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

It's funny that you say that you would like to camp in my front yard. My front yard is an african spurred giant tortoise habitat. You'd be camping amidst 15 foot deep holes big enough to shimmy down into and big, medium sized, sub-adult sulcatas lumbering about, begging for cantaloupe and collard greens and other myriad veggies. lol. They are really terrific beasts. I highly reccomend them to anyone with space that lives in a temperate region.

(one of the things I never mention)

>>Thanks Joel, I must say I didn't expect a response like this. Truly flattering. Now I'm going to sweeten the allure by saying that I don't even post 1/10th of what really goes on around here. With a lot of it, more awareness is NOT better.
>>
>>It is a great "job" if you want to call it that. On my worst, most stressful days (yeah, I have a few, but the real "problem" is never really in the "work" but inside me) it does feel like work. But later or the next day I laugh at my silliness and truly see how good I have it.
>>
>>Things are always expanding and while it is all very easy "work" I am also going to want to take lengthy breaks soon. The unfortunate aspect of this "work" is that it is daily without exception. If you take a day off, something falls behind. and in living things, when something is behind, it is not healthful for them. So basically we don't get any true day's off. So the 2 month vacations to the Amazon or to deepest, darkest, Indonesia are not possible. Because of this we have it in the planning to hire on full time help in terms of a managerial position starting at 30k with full benefits and one or two, part time "grunt work" positions for clean up and physical maintenance. This will take place by Feb or March of next year when the geometrical growth of this operation warrants it.
>>
>>Yes, I have a couple of thousand fuzzy rats at any one time.
>>
>>Thanks for the kind words.
>>
>>
>>>>Is it wierd that my two most wanted vacations include a couple weeks in the Amazon Rain Forest (might go next summer!!!) and then going to stay in brians front yard for a week. ??
>>>>
>>>>I just can't get enough of all the stuff he has going on. It's gotta be a great job.
>>>>
>>>>P.S. Have any fuzzy rats for sale? lol
>>>>-----
>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>
>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>-----
>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

LOL, Just kidding, If I wasn't to busy with school and all the other aspects of life. I would love to come apply for that job. Does it include your own herp room? Free use of the facilities...lol.

It does seem like you have a great life, and I can see where you don't have the time for vacations and such. Never thought about it that way. I would say if you had only snakes them maybe, just maybe you could take a weekend break, but with all the animals you have, and all the chores... you need a break once in a while.

I think it's great reading your posts, they always give me something to look forward too, and no I am not doing some serious butt kissing, I am just doing some major admiring. It's also great to hear that your significant other (wife?/gf?/what not) is such a great help. My gf helps when I ask her if she can. She doesn't know everything about the trade, but nor do i, and she tries her hardest to help me if I ask.

Life is great sometimes and by writing this I just realized it even more.

wow...

joel
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

Brian you do have a lot going on. I loved the information on your breeding setup. I know you have Joels mind a going. We live about 15 mins a part. I try to help him out as much as i can and he does the same for me.
Joel i can build you a rack systm like that. Only alot smaller. A single 4 to 5 level rack would have enough to feed your snakes. Then you could sell the rest. You can count me in on the camping out at Brians. LOL.

>>LOL, Just kidding, If I wasn't to busy with school and all the other aspects of life. I would love to come apply for that job. Does it include your own herp room? Free use of the facilities...lol.
>>
>>It does seem like you have a great life, and I can see where you don't have the time for vacations and such. Never thought about it that way. I would say if you had only snakes them maybe, just maybe you could take a weekend break, but with all the animals you have, and all the chores... you need a break once in a while.
>>
>>I think it's great reading your posts, they always give me something to look forward too, and no I am not doing some serious butt kissing, I am just doing some major admiring. It's also great to hear that your significant other (wife?/gf?/what not) is such a great help. My gf helps when I ask her if she can. She doesn't know everything about the trade, but nor do i, and she tries her hardest to help me if I ask.
>>
>>Life is great sometimes and by writing this I just realized it even more.
>>
>>wow...
>>
>>
>>joel
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Thanks again guys. This all makes me feel really good. Tom, I will send you the construction particulars of the racks if you like. There's a little more to them than meets the eye, as well as there are a few changes that need to be made to improve them. (realized in retrospect after they were completed). Email me at when you're ready and I'll whip something up for you in a jiffy to make it all a lot easier.

As for the job, yeah, I will only be interested in taking on someone with a considerable amount of large python experience and is 100% honest and trustworthy. Nothing else matters like sex, age, size, etc. When I posted that I was kind of hoping it would get the ball rolling and land a qualified person in my lap (not literally, lol)

And Joel,.. you are SO right about my significant other (wife). She is just amazing and I couldn't hope for a better partner and friend. She goes above and beyond daily without hardly ever a negative attitude. Whenever she is even mildly discouraged I boost her confidence and resolve by telling her that she may very well be "the next Tracey Barker". As she admires the Barkers and their work like I do this always lifts her spirits and replaces the confident bounce in her step and spark in her eyes. Yeah,.. she's really terrific.

>>Brian you do have a lot going on. I loved the information on your breeding setup. I know you have Joels mind a going. We live about 15 mins a part. I try to help him out as much as i can and he does the same for me.
>> Joel i can build you a rack systm like that. Only alot smaller. A single 4 to 5 level rack would have enough to feed your snakes. Then you could sell the rest. You can count me in on the camping out at Brians. LOL.
>>
>>
>>>>LOL, Just kidding, If I wasn't to busy with school and all the other aspects of life. I would love to come apply for that job. Does it include your own herp room? Free use of the facilities...lol.
>>>>
>>>>It does seem like you have a great life, and I can see where you don't have the time for vacations and such. Never thought about it that way. I would say if you had only snakes them maybe, just maybe you could take a weekend break, but with all the animals you have, and all the chores... you need a break once in a while.
>>>>
>>>>I think it's great reading your posts, they always give me something to look forward too, and no I am not doing some serious butt kissing, I am just doing some major admiring. It's also great to hear that your significant other (wife?/gf?/what not) is such a great help. My gf helps when I ask her if she can. She doesn't know everything about the trade, but nor do i, and she tries her hardest to help me if I ask.
>>>>
>>>>Life is great sometimes and by writing this I just realized it even more.
>>>>
>>>>wow...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>joel
>>>>-----
>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>
>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

Hey Brian,

Would you also send me the plans as well? I would like to build something like that (but in a much smaller aspect, I only have give or take a few - 13 snakes at a time) and need some type of plans for a rodent rack. I currently have 2.3 Rats and they aren't producing nearly fast enough. I want to get my baby ball pythons on pinkies or fuzzy rats as soon as possible. And mice...they just aren't the same (nutritional wise)

my e-mail is: joel(at)four1seven.com

P.S. could you send me some prices on pinky to fuzzy rats, until i get the ball rolling on my rodent breeding?

Thanks again

Joel
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

The only reason why I didn't offer to send them directly to you above is because Tom offered in his own post to build the racks for you. So logically I figured all I had to do was send them to him. But I'll send them to both. I just have to draw them up first. What is your preferred size or what is your available space? It's easiest to base the designs on that.

>>Hey Brian,
>>
>>Would you also send me the plans as well? I would like to build something like that (but in a much smaller aspect, I only have give or take a few - 13 snakes at a time) and need some type of plans for a rodent rack. I currently have 2.3 Rats and they aren't producing nearly fast enough. I want to get my baby ball pythons on pinkies or fuzzy rats as soon as possible. And mice...they just aren't the same (nutritional wise)
>>
>>my e-mail is: joel(at)four1seven.com
>>
>>P.S. could you send me some prices on pinky to fuzzy rats, until i get the ball rolling on my rodent breeding?
>>
>>
>>Thanks again
>>
>>Joel
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

Wow, I would say my required space is rather small. (4W x 7H) Any Depth would work, or if you'd rather build horizontal then vertical, 4 feet high x 6 feet wide. Either or would be fine. Much appreciated Brian. I just finished building a hatchling rack, it works great!

>>The only reason why I didn't offer to send them directly to you above is because Tom offered in his own post to build the racks for you. So logically I figured all I had to do was send them to him. But I'll send them to both. I just have to draw them up first. What is your preferred size or what is your available space? It's easiest to base the designs on that.
>>
>>
>>>>Hey Brian,
>>>>
>>>>Would you also send me the plans as well? I would like to build something like that (but in a much smaller aspect, I only have give or take a few - 13 snakes at a time) and need some type of plans for a rodent rack. I currently have 2.3 Rats and they aren't producing nearly fast enough. I want to get my baby ball pythons on pinkies or fuzzy rats as soon as possible. And mice...they just aren't the same (nutritional wise)
>>>>
>>>>my e-mail is: joel(at)four1seven.com
>>>>
>>>>P.S. could you send me some prices on pinky to fuzzy rats, until i get the ball rolling on my rodent breeding?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks again
>>>>
>>>>Joel
>>>>-----
>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>
>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>-----
>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.

>>Wow, I would say my required space is rather small. (4W x 7H) Any Depth would work, or if you'd rather build horizontal then vertical, 4 feet high x 6 feet wide. Either or would be fine. Much appreciated Brian. I just finished building a hatchling rack, it works great!
>>
>>
>>
>>>>The only reason why I didn't offer to send them directly to you above is because Tom offered in his own post to build the racks for you. So logically I figured all I had to do was send them to him. But I'll send them to both. I just have to draw them up first. What is your preferred size or what is your available space? It's easiest to base the designs on that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Hey Brian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Would you also send me the plans as well? I would like to build something like that (but in a much smaller aspect, I only have give or take a few - 13 snakes at a time) and need some type of plans for a rodent rack. I currently have 2.3 Rats and they aren't producing nearly fast enough. I want to get my baby ball pythons on pinkies or fuzzy rats as soon as possible. And mice...they just aren't the same (nutritional wise)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>my e-mail is: joel(at)four1seven.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>P.S. could you send me some prices on pinky to fuzzy rats, until i get the ball rolling on my rodent breeding?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks again
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>-----
>>>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!

joel

>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>
>>joel
>>
>>
>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Brian, I am serious about the job. But i am not falling in your lap. LOL
I use concrete mixing tubs. They are like 19 wide and 30 deep by 9 tall. Mine is only 3 levels high. As soon as my building is moved here i will be able to set it so Joel can see if he likes it or not. We can always add more. The construction part of it is no problem. I use to frame houses for a living.

Joel
When you are ready to build it let me know. You get the materials and i will get the tools ready.

>>>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>>>
>>>>joel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>>>-----
>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>
>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Cool, something to keep in mind and seriously consider. The fact that you have building skills is a very valuable asset too as I cut tremendous overhead by building all my own cages and other equipment. It has a lot of potential.

Yes, the concrete mixing tubs are the best for communal tubs and weanling tubs. These are precisely what I was referring to. If his rack was designed to hold tubs of that size then it could also hold any other tub of smaller dimensions. Like a versatile rack to elliminate any need of seperate, additional racks for different purposes. Maternity, weanling, and communal tubs, all in one.

I will need to illustrate this and then copy it into my 4 in 1 machine, make a file on the comp, and then send you the file. Give me a few days.

>>Brian, I am serious about the job. But i am not falling in your lap. LOL
>> I use concrete mixing tubs. They are like 19 wide and 30 deep by 9 tall. Mine is only 3 levels high. As soon as my building is moved here i will be able to set it so Joel can see if he likes it or not. We can always add more. The construction part of it is no problem. I use to frame houses for a living.
>>
>>Joel
>> When you are ready to build it let me know. You get the materials and i will get the tools ready.
>>
>>
>>>>>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>joel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>-----
>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>
>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*

I feel so spoiled. I have awesome breeding cage designs coming from one side, and a major help building them as well from another. Thanks a lot to the both of ya.

P.S.

Thomas, when am I going to stop by and see your new additions?
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

Brian has some great ideas. I also have a catalog from Morton Jones that he told me about. It has some great products. I am a little ticked off my building is not been delivered yet. I should of had a kit barn delivered so all i had to do was out it togerher. I can get a 16 by 16 for $825. I just dont have the room for one that size here.
I hope to have some free time this weekend for you to stop by and see them. And maybe take a few pics. I am also trying to get some hets from Harry. Maybe 0.1 het pied and 0.1 het albino. You are welcome for the help.

>>I feel so spoiled. I have awesome breeding cage designs coming from one side, and a major help building them as well from another. Thanks a lot to the both of ya.
>>
>>P.S.
>>
>>Thomas, when am I going to stop by and see your new additions?
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Awesome, he said that my 100% het pied should be shipped out next monday, and he said he'd try to throw in a 50% male. I may just end up buying a 100%het male and we could use him to sire both of our females...

I saw the rat rack you made, I liked it a lot. I am in desperate need of one at the moment, I think my rodents think they are pets and not breeders...

>>Brian has some great ideas. I also have a catalog from Morton Jones that he told me about. It has some great products. I am a little ticked off my building is not been delivered yet. I should of had a kit barn delivered so all i had to do was out it togerher. I can get a 16 by 16 for $825. I just dont have the room for one that size here.
>> I hope to have some free time this weekend for you to stop by and see them. And maybe take a few pics. I am also trying to get some hets from Harry. Maybe 0.1 het pied and 0.1 het albino. You are welcome for the help.
>>
>>>>I feel so spoiled. I have awesome breeding cage designs coming from one side, and a major help building them as well from another. Thanks a lot to the both of ya.
>>>>
>>>>P.S.
>>>>
>>>>Thomas, when am I going to stop by and see your new additions?
>>>>-----
>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>
>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
- Joel Smith

"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"

Get the wood and screws and we can build you one. I saw ECU lost again.

>>Awesome, he said that my 100% het pied should be shipped out next monday, and he said he'd try to throw in a 50% male. I may just end up buying a 100%het male and we could use him to sire both of our females...
>>
>>I saw the rat rack you made, I liked it a lot. I am in desperate need of one at the moment, I think my rodents think they are pets and not breeders...
>>
>>
>>>>Brian has some great ideas. I also have a catalog from Morton Jones that he told me about. It has some great products. I am a little ticked off my building is not been delivered yet. I should of had a kit barn delivered so all i had to do was out it togerher. I can get a 16 by 16 for $825. I just dont have the room for one that size here.
>>>> I hope to have some free time this weekend for you to stop by and see them. And maybe take a few pics. I am also trying to get some hets from Harry. Maybe 0.1 het pied and 0.1 het albino. You are welcome for the help.
>>>>
>>>>>>I feel so spoiled. I have awesome breeding cage designs coming from one side, and a major help building them as well from another. Thanks a lot to the both of ya.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>P.S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thomas, when am I going to stop by and see your new additions?
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>-----
>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>
>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>-----
>>- Joel Smith
>>
>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Yes i meant to ask about your cages. You have already sent me a designn. On some of your cages i see hardware cloth. Do you have problems with rubbed noses.

>>Cool, something to keep in mind and seriously consider. The fact that you have building skills is a very valuable asset too as I cut tremendous overhead by building all my own cages and other equipment. It has a lot of potential.
>>
>>Yes, the concrete mixing tubs are the best for communal tubs and weanling tubs. These are precisely what I was referring to. If his rack was designed to hold tubs of that size then it could also hold any other tub of smaller dimensions. Like a versatile rack to elliminate any need of seperate, additional racks for different purposes. Maternity, weanling, and communal tubs, all in one.
>>
>>I will need to illustrate this and then copy it into my 4 in 1 machine, make a file on the comp, and then send you the file. Give me a few days.
>>
>>
>>>>Brian, I am serious about the job. But i am not falling in your lap. LOL
>>>> I use concrete mixing tubs. They are like 19 wide and 30 deep by 9 tall. Mine is only 3 levels high. As soon as my building is moved here i will be able to set it so Joel can see if he likes it or not. We can always add more. The construction part of it is no problem. I use to frame houses for a living.
>>>>
>>>>Joel
>>>> When you are ready to build it let me know. You get the materials and i will get the tools ready.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>joel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>-----
>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>
>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>-----
>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!

Very very rarely do I have any snakes pushing or nosing at the wire mesh. All of my snakes are usually very content and lay still a lot of the time. If I ever do have the occasional active snake rubbing it is usually a male that is active and seeking a mate. If he happens to be a male that won't be used for breeding that year I will simply feed him every time he gets overly active. This usually always solves the problem. I have yet to have any nosing that has caused any damage or wounds. The secret is to keep them content and well fed, safe and secure.

>>Yes i meant to ask about your cages. You have already sent me a designn. On some of your cages i see hardware cloth. Do you have problems with rubbed noses.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Cool, something to keep in mind and seriously consider. The fact that you have building skills is a very valuable asset too as I cut tremendous overhead by building all my own cages and other equipment. It has a lot of potential.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, the concrete mixing tubs are the best for communal tubs and weanling tubs. These are precisely what I was referring to. If his rack was designed to hold tubs of that size then it could also hold any other tub of smaller dimensions. Like a versatile rack to elliminate any need of seperate, additional racks for different purposes. Maternity, weanling, and communal tubs, all in one.
>>>>
>>>>I will need to illustrate this and then copy it into my 4 in 1 machine, make a file on the comp, and then send you the file. Give me a few days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Brian, I am serious about the job. But i am not falling in your lap. LOL
>>>>>> I use concrete mixing tubs. They are like 19 wide and 30 deep by 9 tall. Mine is only 3 levels high. As soon as my building is moved here i will be able to set it so Joel can see if he likes it or not. We can always add more. The construction part of it is no problem. I use to frame houses for a living.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>> When you are ready to build it let me know. You get the materials and i will get the tools ready.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>joel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>-----
>>>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
>>-----
>>Thomas Jones
>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>252) 757-3879
>>
>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
-----
Human "progress" equates to nature's demise.

I was curious about that. I will have to keep hardware cloth in mind the next time i build cages.

>>Very very rarely do I have any snakes pushing or nosing at the wire mesh. All of my snakes are usually very content and lay still a lot of the time. If I ever do have the occasional active snake rubbing it is usually a male that is active and seeking a mate. If he happens to be a male that won't be used for breeding that year I will simply feed him every time he gets overly active. This usually always solves the problem. I have yet to have any nosing that has caused any damage or wounds. The secret is to keep them content and well fed, safe and secure.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Yes i meant to ask about your cages. You have already sent me a designn. On some of your cages i see hardware cloth. Do you have problems with rubbed noses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Cool, something to keep in mind and seriously consider. The fact that you have building skills is a very valuable asset too as I cut tremendous overhead by building all my own cages and other equipment. It has a lot of potential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, the concrete mixing tubs are the best for communal tubs and weanling tubs. These are precisely what I was referring to. If his rack was designed to hold tubs of that size then it could also hold any other tub of smaller dimensions. Like a versatile rack to elliminate any need of seperate, additional racks for different purposes. Maternity, weanling, and communal tubs, all in one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I will need to illustrate this and then copy it into my 4 in 1 machine, make a file on the comp, and then send you the file. Give me a few days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Brian, I am serious about the job. But i am not falling in your lap. LOL
>>>>>>>> I use concrete mixing tubs. They are like 19 wide and 30 deep by 9 tall. Mine is only 3 levels high. As soon as my building is moved here i will be able to set it so Joel can see if he likes it or not. We can always add more. The construction part of it is no problem. I use to frame houses for a living.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>> When you are ready to build it let me know. You get the materials and i will get the tools ready.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>That sounds like a perfect idea, and you are correct it is against a wall, thanks a ton!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As it sounds like this will be against a wall you'll only want it to be one tub deep. But instead of limiting it to 14 or 16 inch tubs, you can make your rack 20 inches deep and this way can fit tubs of different widths or depths but with identical heights. So you wouldn't be limited to only one size tub this way. If you like this idea let me know and I will base my figures on this principle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>- Joel Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"If you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem"
>>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>"I must have some terrible, deadly disease. It seems that everyone that has screwed me in the past always dies mysteriously a few years later." *Lou Cypher*
>>>>-----
>>>>Thomas Jones
>>>>aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
>>>>252) 757-3879
>>>>
>>>> My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!
>>-----
>>Human "progress" equates to nature's demise.
-----
Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@earthlink.net
(252) 757-3879

My Wife Ran Off With My Best Friend, I Sure Do Miss HIM!!!