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Few new projects I have going on... They are ALL 100% floridana!

Old project with a brand new look!

Old things and new things

Thanx for looking

-ZFelicien

Nice work Zenny! Seriously I mean that!

But how do you determine the E traits? I mean, I have some of that floating in my collection but I never bothered to isolate and be able to say this is a distinctive trait. Like I have some that came from Jeremy and he got from you or Tom Agosta.

I know what my breeders are ... Test bred them before I started mixing them into other things and I've identified characteristics of both mutations that will help me identify (I hope) the 2x homoZ combination of the two erythristic genes.

Mixed with hypo and anery they created some killer new traits... Mixed with each other they produced hets (so not the same gene)... Names are "textbook definitions" given to relate the observable/phenotypic characteristics in a logical way.

But how do you determine the E traits? I mean,I have some of that floating in my collection but I never bothered to isolate and be able to say this is a distinctive trait. Like I have some that came from Jeremy and he got from you or Tom Agosta.

You assume they are the same/similar/related... But you pointed out your own error in failing to isolate either of them... Until then it will be just that; an assumption. If these are lavender flames they could just be high orange lavenders from his line but they were not a part of this project. The original project was "flame" x hypo ... Anery gene was already floating around in there... Back breeding siblings to each other and parental stock unlocked the existence of 2 NEW genetically distinct traits that affect the red/orange color the exact opposite manner the Anerythristic mutation affects normal expression of color... One trait enhances red and only red the other is an produces overall red/orange florida kingsnake.

You assume they are the same/similar/related... But you pointed out your own error in failing to isolate either of them... Until then it will be just that; an assumption.

I got them from Jeremy and he got them from you and agosta.

I just asked a question and I see you still want to attack me with dictaions of how you test proved them out first and what not (aimed at me with the original Jellies)and didn't say what makes them E.

It was an honest question and not a question to trick you. But you are just here in flame me. So I am sorry I asked.
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"I guess newbies cannot understand, those who build the foundation, are not the ones with great opportunity. Those who buy the latest generations, have the greatest opportunity to create new morphs. "

Frank Retes

I already gave you an answer,

2 NEW genetically distinct traits that affect the red/orange color the exact opposite manner the Anerythristic mutation affects normal expression of color... One trait enhances red and only red the other is an produces overall red/orange florida kingsnake.

Red snakes that aren't hypo... Look again do you see red snakes that aren't hypo?

Again you are still assuming, I have a hypo flame line that is very red but it isn't erythristic or hyper-E you may have that line?

Post a pic

yeah I know about the different hypos and the different flames. I had the first floridas and know many people coined the name flame on anything red.

Zenny you speak to me with such disrespect and contempt. Yet you know who I am and my backround yet you try to speak to me as parent to a toddler when actually it is the exact way around when it comes to genetics and herpetoculture in general.

You need to get off you high horse and realize anything you brought onto yourself here in the past was from you won actions back then and the consequences resulted from your attitude. You only have yourself to blame.

But really be honest..you are here to do one thing and that is discredit me and NOT to talk about snakes.

So, back to your hole with the other trolls you go..
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"I guess newbies cannot understand, those who build the foundation, are not the ones with great opportunity. Those who buy the latest generations, have the greatest opportunity to create new morphs. "

Frank Retes

I answered all the valid questions you asked me... You asked how I knew it was E and I walked you through some steps about how I proved it and why I selected the names I did

Walk me through the steps of how you prove a snake is "het for jelly"

Or please make it clear like I've asked if jelly is bred to another snake what is the outcome... You can pick the snake or breed it to a normal, what is the outcome... Show me all that you know about genetics, show me MY ignorance

Umm, you are picking up the conversational topic from the thread below and moving it to the top . You should answer the question I asked you there. I asked you yesterday. I must have asked you about 5x or more. You refuse to answer and now you are playing games at the top of the forum for people to see.

Zenny you are incredibly FOS and you know it.
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"I guess newbies cannot understand, those who build the foundation, are not the ones with great opportunity. Those who buy the latest generations, have the greatest opportunity to create new morphs. "

Frank Retes

I told you your question makes no sense! How do you expect me to answer it... U wanna ramble about your vast knowledge and what u did 1st but you can't explain how things work ... All u do is just tell me that you know how they work! Well explain it to me!

IF YOU BREED A JELLY X MORPH XWHAT IS THE OUTCOME! "Het jellies?"

Stop muddying the waters and answer the damn question already! It's obvious to me you have no f$&@'n clue what you are talking about because you are still calling things "het for jelly"!

Btw what "everyone" would I like to see my post? He 3 regulars here? I'm asking you about the snakes YOU work with but you still can't tell me a damn thing about them... Even the explanations in our ads is some warped version of information I've shared with you and here... Pull your head out of the clouds; stop assuming someone is attacking you and give a straight forward answer on how the genetics of jellies work if you can't do that we have nothing more to talk about, thus far all you've just tried to elicit a reaction from me and it hasn't worked, I'm still trying to figure out if you know what you're taking about (well I know you don't but I gave you the benefit) instead you've just danced around the question, you replied to me about 5-6x since I asked yet you can't tell me what the outcome of a jelly x anything will be...

Go back to the correct thread and answer the question.
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"I guess newbies cannot understand, those who build the foundation, are not the ones with great opportunity. Those who buy the latest generations, have the greatest opportunity to create new morphs. "

Frank Retes

I am not going to teach you anything Zenny. I asked you a question and you refuse to answer and then ask me to answer it for you.

If you had answered the question and were able to follow the thread in context you would be able to see what I wanted to prove.

Before I thought you were smarter and were just playing games. But now I think you really don't have a clue as to what I was getting at and the point I was going to make with you.

So stop asking me questions if you refuse to answer the question I asked you first. You want to learn something it will be my way. You attitude will get you nowhere and you end up being the loser.
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"I guess newbies cannot understand, those who build the foundation, are not the ones with great opportunity. Those who buy the latest generations, have the greatest opportunity to create new morphs. "

Frank Retes

Where is the guy who supposedly bought Jeremys snakes?Did you not introduce them?Then he didn't pay Jeremy anything!

Mike

First off, beautiful snakes.

Here I go again, I do not understand the fixation on being a pure something, in this case, Fla. When the animals in no way represent any phenotype or local known to man. A mutation is a mutation. hybrid or not.

Its interesting behaviorally, to make self limiting hurdles. You know, lets see how different we can make an animal and still think of it as a natural species.

As one who has experience with this, hybrids of
any combination, outside of a genetic type. Even different locals when crossed are genetic hybrids. A well known Taxonomist grilled us to death on this once. Us is zoo folks.

Thanx for the compliment, many years of hard work and some collaborative efforts. There is a lot more potential for a number of combinations that have yet to be attempted, produced or even thought of as yet

I said they were 100% floridana! meaning other ssp. Were not used to "create" any effect or colors... Cross any two snakes creates a "hybrid" (f1)of both parental stocks... Subsequent breeding of generations creates generational f2... f3... f4... "hybrids" but they are still ALL floridana.

I am not a locale specific guy I'm a morph/genetic cross breeder... I think your post applies to that aspect (locale) of the hobby not what I'm attempting to do with these morph combinations.

I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about me.

I simply do not understand it. People can do whatever they want.

ALso, I hope I didn't said PURE, I thought I said, morphs as they relate to a local or species.

Anyway, those are beautiful snakes. Keep up the good work

Sweet ghost, Zenny! Is the old with new look a jelly? Thanks for posting!

No that's a sweet ghost! Lol! What's up man, long time no chat, I still owe you much credit for that gorgeous green pair I got from you and your data keeping saying the female was a 2x het for hypo & lav.... Bred her to a 2x het male I got to loan from Jeff le'Compte; 1st shot she gave me my1st "Hybino" I used to start my lines with some 2x hets I bred myself using some "hypo flame" stuff! I still remember that huge lavender albino male of yours. W the his paradoxed scales Wasn't he striped as well?

There aren't any "ghosts" in my post (hypo x anery) there is anery but anery x erythristic genes ... The anery cancels out the erythrism resulting in a white phenotype, it's similar looking with the "hypo" x anery I'll give you that... I think this is because (my theory) the "hypo" brooks is not a true hypomelanistic animal, it I fact may be enhancing the colors that are already present not reducing the color black, the enhancement of the color makes the black appear reduced but it isn't in actuality... But like I've said... My theory)

But I'll still take the compliments, thanx Andy!

-Z

Great stuff Z, I cannot wait. My wallet feels lighter already!

" My wallet feels lighter already! "

HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!

Great comment!
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Genesis 1:1

Wow! Those Kings are amazing!