Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We seem to be regressing in our reaction to training class. I posted this also on the german shepherd board in response to a query about another dog who acts the same way as Cheyenne.

I think that this fearful aggression originated at our first dog training class at a large chain pet store, when two little cocker spaniel dogs barked at her as we were entering the store. She immediately decided that she didn't want to go in there, and I had to actually carry her into the store. It just got worse from there.

Cheyenne lives peacefully (most of the time) with a second older female dog in our house. She is a rescue that we got when she was about 3 months old. She is getting better in our house now, for a long time she would shy away from people and acted as if we beat her (we never have, of course).

She is fine one on one with other dogs (while not in class), but during class, she lunges and acts as if she wants to tear them up! She gets REALLY upset when we start the heeling exercises and the other dogs all get moving. We have a very small class, last night there were only 3 other dogs there in a big room. She will start trembling in fear when I put on her Gentle Leader training collar prior to leaving the car to go into class. If I put this collar on her anywhere, she also starts trembling in fear. This is not anticipation trembling, but fear. We have tried rewarding her for not barking and lunging at the dogs in class, it seems to make no difference. She actually bit me quite hard a few times during class one night (no skin was broken, just bruises), when she had locked into that lunging phase and she didn't even know that I was there.

She is 11 months old, spayed at 7 months. She has had three obedience class series (puppy, puppy step 2, and intermediate obedience (all ages) thus far, and is enrolled to begin her fourth class this Monday night. She actually has two class nights of intermediate left to go, which we will do concurrently with the new class. We switched to a different training club after the first puppy series was over, but it makes no difference. We are going to try reprimanding her for the aggressive behavior during the next class to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for any help.

sue (& cheyenne)

Sounds like she's associated the gentle leader with the trauma of those pesky cockers... Have you tried any other collars on her? Maybe it might be time to switch to something else. A prong collar might do the trick (with comfort tips). Whenever she lunges, give her a quick and firm tug, then reward her for diverting her attention towards you. She'll learn that the aggression gets bad results, and that when she trust other dogs and you, she gets treats! yum!

Here's a few interesting articles to read:

The Problems with Head Halters
TRAINING WITH THE PRONG COLLAR
HE JUST WANTS TO SAY HI!

Sophie had an encounter with a MinPin at puppy training class (i'm not sure if i told anyone on the board about it yet). She went to greet the MinPin, it was ok for about 15 seconds, and then the MinPin jumped up and attacked her. Mind you, the dog has a reputation for being very protective of her owner, but the interaction at first seemed to be o.k. I pulled her away from the dog instantly.

The first exercise for us to do was try and keep our dogs' attention. Who do you think I got to sit next to? The MinPin, of course. Sophie, who is usually like Dr. Jekel & Mr. Hyde at these classes (Hyde being home, and Jekel at class), would not listen to me at all, but stand there and bark at the MinPin! She's usually very quiet and reserved at class. The MinPin starts getting riled up, barking back at Sophie, Sophie at the MinPin... I couldn't get her to look me in the eyes more than about 2 times, and that was with one of the trainer's assistance with a toy. When she first approached me she said "well! one of our shyest dogs comes out of its shell!" Sophie was rowdy for the whole class. Barking on occassion just for good measure, to let the MinPin know that she wouldn't live it down!

AB's just have elephant memory when their pride is bruised I guess.

Good Luck with Cheyenne, I just can't wait to see how Sophie will be in her next class on Thursday! (this past Thursday's class was cancelled due to snow)

-Lesya & Sophie

Hmmmmm, Sue. Sounds like this behavior is getting very ingrained. I, too, would change the collar in hopes that a new collar would help eliminate her fear anticipation. A prong, used correctly (and I have to urge you to get someone very knowledgeable to show you how to do a correction with one) does not hurt. You can try the collar on your upper arm and do a correction to see how it feels. You DO want to eliminate the fear behavior and her protection of you in class (that's what I think is going on with her)without seeming to pay attention to it. In other words, the collar correction without comment or even looking at her. Try not to move or even feel any emotion while doing the correction. Then do a "look at me" command or a "sit" and when she does this, reward the good behavior. I'm afraid the further she goes with the negative behavior the more ingrained it will be. You might want to do one on one with a dog behaviorist, too.

Tasha

so go there to see the update.
sue

Can't wait to see what happened. Crossing fingers and paws here that all went well.

tasha

I agree with Leysa. Try using a different collar on Cheyenne. Not only did she have a bad first experience, but also if she is already defensive, the gentle leader may be adding to the problem, making her feel confined. I have seen many dogs get very defensive with a muzzle on, and the gentle leader wraps around their mouth making them feel like they cannot fight back if attacked. So she is lashing out first, to be on the safe side. I would start on reward training with a prong collar on at home with no corrections, just to get her used to it, and slowly work your way into compulsion training. I personally do not do any compulsion obedience training with my dogs until they mentally mature a bit, around 1-2 years old.

Poor Sophie - driven beyond endurance by a MinPin! I am always amazed at little (and tiny) dogs who think they are actually 250 lb. dogs and can terrorize another dog. Definitely what terriers tend to do (and chis) but I didn't know MinPins did this as well.

Tasha

hehe, I know! My grandmother had MinPins. Those little buggers were FIESTY! They are quite protective of their owners.

I am going to do my best to not be next to Pixie (MinPin's name). The trainers there are great, and very understanding of it all
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Lesya & Sophie