Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what is the gestation period for a min pin
i've been getting conflicting info.

Same as any other breed of dog...63 days. This is 63 days from the time the eggs are fertilized, not the first day of breeding.
Exactly one week before labor, the females' belly will drop and hang with a very noticeable change. If the drop occurs on a Monday, then the following Monday the pups will be born. It is the most reliable method of determining when to expect the pups, so pay attention towards the end of the pregnancy.

Regardless of breed it is 63 days, give or take a day or two. Best thing to do is to figure about 9 wks from day of breeding. Take her in at about a week before her due date, have her xrayed. Make sure all pups are of proper size for her to whelp naturally, as with a toy breed, you do have to worry about C Sections.

Start taking her temperature about a week before her due date. Take it morning and evening, and keep a journal. It naturally fluctuates, but you're waiting for it to drop to I believe it's 98. Puppies will be born with 24 hrs

I've had a bitch NOT drop until the day or two before they whelped. I've had another who dropped two WEEKS before she whelped. So, using that is not a foolproof method.
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

I've also had a bitch that dropped her temperature 9 days before whelping. I go by the drop method as well as behavior. I've only been off by a day once.

Any bitch of mine who dropped temperature and never had puppies within 24 hrs, would be at the vet's ASAP. I know of too many dogs who've lost litters because of that.

The temp is as close to 'fool proof' as I've ever seen/heard. Maiden dogs often do NOT drop puppies until the day or two before, and if there is a small litter, maybe not at all.
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

At the later stages of pregnancy, you can tell if pups are distressed. At that age, pups are easy to tell if something is wrong. One must observe the pups in the womb throughout the pregnancy and understand the movements etc. I have had dogs give birth to a puppy, and give birth to the rest of the litter a week later. All pups survived. This has happened to me multiple times. My vet says its the oddities of pregnancy. As long as labor stops its OK. He has trained me well in area. I have since delivered, a human baby, a cow, horse, goat, kittens, etc. The majority of pregnancies are similar, but every once in awhile, it'll throw you for a loop. I'm blessed to have a vet that not only helps me with the problems, but also teaches me exactly what he is doing and why. Some things, even vet may have trouble understanding. He'll give me his ideas, and I give him mine.I did go to the vet with the bitch that dropped her temperature a week early. He said its normal for this dog as the pups are fine, and sent me home. She was an odd dog as the pups were born 12 hours apart. She would stop labor after each pup, wait 11 1/2 hours and begin to push again.

Sorry Teepee, but if this was true, people would not be losing puppies to this. I know for a fact many breeders who lost puppies who were distressed. Too many puppies dead because they were distressed.

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Nobody has xray vision. You can't observe the pups in the womb except by xray or ultrasound.

Sorry, but that is a nasty accident waiting to happen. And you are lucky, very lucky, not to've had anything go wrong. There are tales upon tales of things going nastily wrong, dead puppies, dead bitch. I take my bitches lives WAY tooo seriously to screw with them.

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My vet is wonderful, and willing to try anything I bring to his attention.

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Any newbies reading this forum, PLEASE do not take this as gospel. If your bitch goes more than 3 hrs of active labor between having puppies, TAKE HER TO THE VET. It is NOT normal for a bitch to go this long, and if any bitch of mine went that long, she'd be at the vet so fast, the puppies would spin out due to centrifucal force. You endanger her life by thinking "oh, but so and so had a bitch who did the same thing'. Get her to the vet, ASAP.
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

I notice you said active labor. I specifically said that labor completely stopped after each pup. Not one single push was observed until 1/2 hour before the next pup. I do realize that most people who would be reading this would not recognize the difference between an abnormal labor, and a delivery that has gone wrong. Maybe its because I've been delivering pups longer than most who are reading this have been alive, that I know when to take a bitch to the vet. On all my deliveries, I always have my vet on standby.I have NEVER lost a bitch, and I have only lost 1 pup to a difficult birth. Not only have I had long drawn out deliveries, but I also had a bitch whelp a litter of seven pups in a twelve minute time frame. Each one is unique and each delivery different. I always reccomend that any new breeders pal up to a long time breeder and have them there for the first 5 years of deliveries to teach them the ropes.

>> The temp is as close to 'fool proof' as I've ever seen/heard.

Interestingly, though.... this method really is not at all fool proof.

In the chat she did on DogHobbyist about the "WhelpWise" uterine monitor that breeders use in their home, Karen Copely said:

WhelpWise: wildfire, I did a study that was published for the theriogenology meeting last year

WhelpWise: study of 100 clients that checked temperature at least twice a day

WhelpWise: a third of the time, there was no decrease below 99.5

WhelpWise: a third of the time the temperature dropped below 99.5 but the onset of labor varied from already having an active labor, and not starting labor for five days

WhelpWise: there was no correlation with bad outcome and temperature in that group

WhelpWise: the other third of the time, the temperature went up and down and up and down and we really couldn't make a distinction as to what was the temperature drop

WhelpWise: the fact is women's temperature also drops, but has anyone's obstetrician ever asked a woman if her temperature has changed to determine if her labor has begun?

WhelpWise: no

WhelpWise: why? because we have better ways of determining that

WhelpWise: and now so do we in dogs
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/

Better ways if we can afford whelpwise, and from the last time I saw anything about it, nothing I can (or want) afford, and nothing I really feel the need to have. But temperature has worked for everyone I know, and nobody has ever said(nor have I ever seen in any book) the comment about a bitch 'dropping' the puppies down being the way to tell.
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

>>Better ways if we can afford whelpwise, and from the last time I saw anything about it, nothing I can (or want) afford, and nothing I really feel the need to have.

It's only $330, less than the cost of one puppy and, if it can save a C-section or a single pup, will pay for itself.

Knowledge is power. I never turn my back on more information. I'm not saying everyone who has a litter has to use WhelpWise, although I will never have a litter again without it, but it's the gold standard in human obstetrics and many of the things we rely on - "rules of thumb," old wives' takes, habit, superstition, and guesswork - in dog breeding can in fact be known, not guessed at.
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/

>>Exactly one week before labor, the females' belly will drop and hang with a very noticeable change. If the drop occurs on a Monday, then the following Monday the pups will be born. It is the most reliable method of determining when to expect the pups, so pay attention towards the end of the pregnancy.

Goodness, I have never seen this - if you have observed it, it might be a breed-related thing. I would actually say sometimes my bitches look LESS pregnant in the last week than they did before.

The *most* reliable method of determining when your pups will come is a combination of ovulation timing (progesterone testing) with the use of a uterine monitoring system in your home, along with a fetal heartrate monitor. That is how they do it in human obstetrics, and it's available for dogs now also. It takes the guesswork out!
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/

That less pregnant look is the drop I'm referring to. I work with toy breeds and this drop may be more noticeable with them. I found it to be 100% accurate, where the temperature testing was only about 80% accurate. I will try to get some pictures during one of the next pregnancies.