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I have a 2-1/2 year old male Rottie, and I have a 9 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. We have had our Rottie since he was about 7 weeks old, and up until recently (6 months or so), we never had problems with him being aggressive towards anyone living in the house. I always trusted him with my children. Now I don't. Within the past 6 months or so, his personality began changing. He is fine with my husband, but he hasn't been as good with me or our children, especially my 4 year old son. Two days ago while I was in the bathroom, the dog nipped at my sons face. I use the term "nip" because he didn't break the skin and the marks on my sons face were about a 1/2 inch apart, which means that the dog barely had his mouth open. My daughter was in the room with my son when it happened. She told me that my son walked up to the dog as he was standing and asked the dog for his paw. The dog ignored him. So, he asked again. Again, the dog ignored him. After repeating this a couple of more times, my son gave up. He never tried to grab the dogs paw. He gave the dog a couple of strokes on the top of his head, and went and sat on the recliner, which was a few feet from where the dog was standing. The dog then approached my son as he was sitting in the recliner and nipped at his face. The dog then turned around and walked away as if nothing happened. My daughter and my son both said that the dog didn't growl or anything. He didn't show any sign of being mad. I got out of the bathroom about 30 seconds after this happened, and right away I checked my son out to see if he was okay, and he was, so I approached the dog and he didn't appear to be mad or anything. He was as calm as can be.

Prior to this, he has growled at my son and my daughter. He never shows his teeth. Its more under his breath. Since this happened, I've kept my kids away from him. He has growled at me twice. The first time he did this, he was in the kitchen behind a gate and I leaned over the gate to pet him and he growled. Again, he didn't show teeth. He didn't even lift his head. He just laid there and growled. The second time he did this was the next night. I was sitting on the couch and he was laying on the floor at my feet, and I leaned over and was petting him, and he did the same thing. Is this because I am leaning over him? I don't understand what is happening here.

If anyone can give me some advice, I would appreciate it. What do you think this means. I'm sorry this was so long. Also, would neutering help with his aggression? I've heard so many different things about this. Also, just to clear this up, he has always been aggressive towards other people and animals. The only people and animals that he wasn't this way with were the people/animals that live with him.

You need to seek professional advice. First take him to the vet and rule out anything medically wrong with him.

Then get an experienced animal behaviorist to come in and observe him in your home.

ASAP

Please let us know how you are doing.

>>I have a 2-1/2 year old male Rottie, and I have a 9 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. We have had our Rottie since he was about 7 weeks old, and up until recently (6 months or so), we never had problems with him being aggressive towards anyone living in the house. I always trusted him with my children. Now I don't. Within the past 6 months or so, his personality began changing. He is fine with my husband, but he hasn't been as good with me or our children, especially my 4 year old son. Two days ago while I was in the bathroom, the dog nipped at my sons face. I use the term "nip" because he didn't break the skin and the marks on my sons face were about a 1/2 inch apart, which means that the dog barely had his mouth open. My daughter was in the room with my son when it happened. She told me that my son walked up to the dog as he was standing and asked the dog for his paw. The dog ignored him. So, he asked again. Again, the dog ignored him. After repeating this a couple of more times, my son gave up. He never tried to grab the dogs paw. He gave the dog a couple of strokes on the top of his head, and went and sat on the recliner, which was a few feet from where the dog was standing. The dog then approached my son as he was sitting in the recliner and nipped at his face. The dog then turned around and walked away as if nothing happened. My daughter and my son both said that the dog didn't growl or anything. He didn't show any sign of being mad. I got out of the bathroom about 30 seconds after this happened, and right away I checked my son out to see if he was okay, and he was, so I approached the dog and he didn't appear to be mad or anything. He was as calm as can be.
>>
>>Prior to this, he has growled at my son and my daughter. He never shows his teeth. Its more under his breath. Since this happened, I've kept my kids away from him. He has growled at me twice. The first time he did this, he was in the kitchen behind a gate and I leaned over the gate to pet him and he growled. Again, he didn't show teeth. He didn't even lift his head. He just laid there and growled. The second time he did this was the next night. I was sitting on the couch and he was laying on the floor at my feet, and I leaned over and was petting him, and he did the same thing. Is this because I am leaning over him? I don't understand what is happening here.
>>
>>If anyone can give me some advice, I would appreciate it. What do you think this means. I'm sorry this was so long. Also, would neutering help with his aggression? I've heard so many different things about this. Also, just to clear this up, he has always been aggressive towards other people and animals. The only people and animals that he wasn't this way with were the people/animals that live with him.
>>>>

You're right to keep the kids away from the dog at this point. An important rule for kids under school is that they need a competent ADULT present every single second they spend with ANY dog. Too many bad things happen when kids under school age don't get this adult supervision with dogs. A 9-year-old child can't control both a preschool child and a dog. It has to be an adult. And young boys are the number one group killed by dogs.

The dog's aggression toward people outside the family was a big clue that this temperament was a risk to the kids. Do be sure to get a behavior specialist involved immediately to evaluate the dog and the situation. Talk to your veterinarian about it right away and ask the vet to recommend a behavior specialist in the area. There is no time to waste. Your son should probably be present when the behavior specialist evaluates the dog--ask about this in advance. You may need an extra adult to handle the child during the evaluation, though. If this dog came from a responsible breeder, that breeder will take responsibility now, so be in touch with him/her, too.

Since skin was broken, this was not a nip, it was a bite. The dog has bitten your son. This may very well be the last warning you get before something really terrible happens.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

The dog did not break my sons skin. You must have read that wrong. Also, I didn't leave my house or anything like that and leave my 9 year old to be in charge of a 4 year old and a dog. I went to the bathroom and I was probably in there for 2-3 minutes. I understand that it only takes that amount of time for a Rottie to do a lot of damage to a child, but he has never ever tried to hurt my son like that before. He has growled at him, but it was more grumbling than growling. He never showed teeth or appeared to be irate or anything like that, he was as calm as can be just grumbling. I don't know what that means. I've seen dogs growl before, and it was nothing like that. Last summer the dog and my son used to play together in the back yard and they would chase each other. The dog would play right along with my son, and it was fun for both of them. They were having a good time. This is why I wasn't too concerned about him harming my child. As far as the dog being aggressive towards people outside of his family. I think that is natural for any dog. If I invite someone into my house, the dog is okay. But when he is outside, its different. I think that is more of him protecting the yard. But, he doesn't try to jump the fence or anything like that, and he could do it if he tried. And as soon as the person is past our house, he is fine. Same thing if he is on a leash. He appears to be more aggressive when on a leash. As far as other animals, I have another dog that is a female (Pembroke Welsh Corgi)....and he gets along great with her. My sister in law used to live with me too, and she had a dog and a cat, and he was fine with them too. But, they were all there before he was. So, he was raised with them. But, I think if I were to try to bring a new pet into the household, I don't think he would go for that. My neighbors have pets too, and they run back and forth along the fence barking, but neither dog seems like they are out for blood. So, I basically want to know if anyone knows what this means. He normally isn't a mean dog, which I thought I had clarified that in my original posting. I don't understand why this happened with him nipping my sons face. It obviously isn't normal behavior for a dog to do. What does the grumbling mean??? That is the big change that I noticed in him within the last few months. I shouldn't have used the term growling because I guess that gives the impression that he is foaming at the mouth and stuff like that, but it is nothing like that. He is calm. He could be laying on the floor and not even move, and yet he will start doing that (grumbling).

>>

The point is do not leave any dog unsupervied with a child, even if only for 20 seconds while you answer the phone - either take the dog or the children with you into the other room.

Also you do not mention if the dog is neutered, at his age this may also be a factor and neutering might help.

I would recommend first that the dog be completely checked by a vet including OFA xrays for hip and elbow problems, he may be in pain and not showing it. And neutered if not already.

Secondly this dog needs to be evaluated by a professional behaviorist, not just the family vet.

Thirdly this dog if ok's by the behaviorist and vet needs to be in obedience classes with you handling him so that he learns who the alpha is and to obey you. Find a trainer that is experienced with working breed dogs.

Lastly if any of your family has been playing tug games with this dog, that must stop now. Only games such as fetch should be played with this dog till all of the above things have been done.

Please for the safety of your children and the life of your dog, do not let your children be interacting with this dog until you have done all of the above, expecially your youngest as his face is at the same level as the dogs and your child needs to be protected till this is resolved.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

>>Also, I didn't leave my house or anything like that and leave my 9 year old to be in charge of a 4 year old and a dog. ...He has growled at him, but it was more grumbling than growling. ... Last summer the dog and my son used to play together in the back yard and they would chase each other. The dog would play right along with my son, and it was fun for both of them. They were having a good time. .. As far as the dog being aggressive towards people outside of his family. ...Same thing if he is on a leash. He appears to be more aggressive when on a leash.... I don't understand why this happened with him nipping my sons face. ...I shouldn't have used the term growling because I guess that gives the impression that he is foaming at the mouth and stuff like that, but it is nothing like that.
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

>>>>Also, I didn't leave my house or anything like that and leave my 9 year old to be in charge of a 4 year old and a dog. ...He has growled at him, but it was more grumbling than growling. ... Last summer the dog and my son used to play together in the back yard and they would chase each other. The dog would play right along with my son, and it was fun for both of them. They were having a good time. .. As far as the dog being aggressive towards people outside of his family. ...Same thing if he is on a leash. He appears to be more aggressive when on a leash.... I don't understand why this happened with him nipping my sons face. ...I shouldn't have used the term growling because I guess that gives the impression that he is foaming at the mouth and stuff like that, but it is nothing like that.>>

Well I am truly upset. i wrote a LONG response and all it did was QUOTE the part and left all of my post out!

In brief, you have few options. Either you commit to learning and getting professional help, or you give him back to the breeder, or you put him down. A dog who has shown aggression toward a child is not placeable, period. Even though it is pretty obvious that the most LIKELY problem is simply that your family is clueless about raising such a dog (and that is not to say it is your fault entirely... whoever placed this dog in your home didn't do THEIR PART to educate you!), once you reach this point, there are limited options.

That you allowed your then 3 yr old child to play chasing games with an 18 mo old dog last year is a sign that you truly have messed up ideas about what is okay with this breed of dogs. You have now raised a dog to think he is on equal terms with you and the kids, and probably alpha over you all. It is dangerous and you are RIGHT to be concerned. Because when dogs growl, they will bite. And when they nip, they will nip or bite harder. And with children, the danger is high. It has to be addressed and turned around NOW or else you move to options 2 or 3.

Also, allowing him to fence fight and show aggression is NOT okay. The second it starts, he comes in. Period. You get up and you bring him into the house with a stern NO. Get aggressive on leash, you need training classes NOW. he needs to understand "look at me" and to focus on YOUR FACE and not attend to ANYTHING else. Until you reach that point, he is not safe on lead. Making excuses about it being normal doesn't cut it. BITING is also normal. Our job is to train and make safe.

As for the dog... get him vetted, then call the closest university vet school and ask for a behaviorist consultation FAST. While you are waiting, start reading. Decide if you are willing to commit to retraining this dog and if you can do what it takes to do it.

How to be a Good Leader: Mary
http://www.clickerlessons.com/leader.html

Building Pack Drive through Grooming: KDD
http://k9deb.com/drives.htm

Who's In Charge Here? A Lesson In Becoming Alpha
http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/alpha.htm

The Dance
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/dance.txt

Alpha-Roll Training Can Cause Serious Problems
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=984

How To Choose A Dog Trainer
http://www.inch.com/~dogs/tips.html

DO.G.: Kids And Dogs: Safety First
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/kidsdog1.html

D. O. G. : Kids and Dogs: A Common Se...
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/kidsdog2.html

Children and Dogs - Denver Dumb Friends League, Humane Society of Denver
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/children.htm
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

Well, this is the exact info I need. I obviously didn't know enough about the breed. I thought that I did. I have been reading a lot about this breed since this happened, and I have learned a lot about them since then. The only thing that I pretty much new when I got this dog was that they are aggressive dogs, but can be good family dogs if trained properly. We took him to obedience training, and the trainer said that as long as he doesn't show aggression, he is okay. They didn't tell us that there are certain things that we should or should not do with this dog. I now know different.

I do want to work with him. Now that I know that there is more involved than just basic discipline....I will do what I have to. I don't want to put him down. I will do what it takes to make sure that doesn't happen. I know he has potential. If anyone can think of anything else that I should know that has not been mentioned, please tell me. The more I know the better I am. I am going to go through all of the websites that I have been referred to. Thanks to all of you for all of your help. I'm also sorry if anyone has taken offense to me being the owner of a Rottweiler and not having the knowledge that I should as the owner of this breed of dog. Like I said....I'm not giving up. I know I can work with him.

Also, one of the problems that we ran into with the obedience training is that they said that we should pick one person in our family to do all of the training, so that is what we did. My husband was the only one to attend the training with our dog. That was probably one of our biggest mistakes with him. So, would it be recommended that we do the obedience training again with all of us involved as well as behavior training? I'm sorry if I ask so many questions. It's just that I have learned so much in the last 2 days from this message board.

one of the problems that we ran into with the obedience training is that they said that we should pick one person in our family to do all of the training, so that is what we did. My husband was the only one to attend the training with our dog.

This is normal, in order to make it easier on the dog and the people involved. But once the dog has completed basic obedience and understnads the commands the others in the household should start working and practising with the dog also so that he understands he has to obed all family members.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

Thanks to all of you for all of your help. I'm also sorry if anyone has taken offense to me being the owner of a Rottweiler and not having the knowledge that I should as the owner of this breed of dog.

You worrry to much. We weren't offended. You came here asking for advice, and we're glad you came.
We are just concerned for the safety of your child. Make sure and keep us updated.

Let hubby be the only one who takes him to class

But EVERYONE needs to work with him at home. Everyone go to class with Hubby(except maybe the baby, he may be too young for attention span for that long), and watch, observe what he's doing, so you can do it at home.

For your son, he can use the sit, down, come commands.

Start reinforcing you are alpha.
1. No bed/couch privs, at all. Means no cuddling on the couch or bed, his place is on the floor or on his own bed.
2. You eat first.
3. Make him work for his food/treats. Sit, down, stand, stay, etc. I'll do puppy situps if one of my guys are acting like a world class butthead. Sit down sit down, Repeat it for about 30 seconds.
4. You go through the doorway first.
5. You initiate all play, and end it when you want to end it, not when he does.

That's all I can think of right now, but i'm sure others'll come up with more!
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

>> I'm also sorry if anyone has taken offense to me being the owner of a Rottweiler and not having the knowledge that I should as the owner of this breed of dog. Like I said....I'm not giving up. I know I can work with him.>>

I take offense at the BREEDER who would place a dog in a family with young kids without them being experienced! It wasn't you. And really, even when we THINK we know, the reality is often different! That you are trying makes me happy. <G>

>>Also, one of the problems that we ran into with the obedience training is that they said that we should pick one person in our family to do all of the training, so that is what we did.
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

DDS, if you used your browser back and forward keys any time during your posts, I think that may have been your problem. However, if you continue to have problems, please let someone know.

You can email me and I will get the info to the proper place. Not exactly sure whom that might be at this point but can certainly find out.

PHRottn
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PHRottn
HRottn@PetHobbyist.com" target="_blank">My Email

Rott-N-Dogues make excellent best friends!

>>DDS, if you used your browser back and forward keys any time during your posts, I think that may have been your problem. However, if you continue to have problems, please let someone know.>>

Nope, I NEVER move once I am posting. It was all there, never went back or forward... hit send and bam. In fact, it only copied just the part I wanted to quote, unlike if you do b/f and get the entire quote again.

But it seems fine now. <G>
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

Is he neutered? If not, do it
Get his butt into an OB program right away.

I think it was bad to allow him to chase your son, even in play.

Start now, with never allowing your son to be with that dog unsupervised. That means, yes, even if you go to the bathroom, bring one or the other with you. A lot of things can happen in 2-3 mins, including death. Sad, but a horrible truth.

Get his butt into OB, and the rest of the family needs to work WITH him also. Don't just have it be you or hubby. All of you need to work with him. Make him work for treats and goodies.

Good luck. But take a lot of the advice given here to heart. .we really don't want to read a story about a horrible problem at your house, as you all know, any rottie accident gets publicized
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PHBorzoi

Mielikki's Hunt Borzoi
http://www.mielikkishunt.com

Treasure the past, don't mourn it.
A balanced dog has a title on both ends.

Ha, and I was worried about you feeling we were ganging up on you. You did a good thing coming here..... these are the best Rottie people online, (actually in the world, IMO). I've learned so much from them.

It is crucial that you begin enforcing that the dog is on the bottom of the "food chain" or "pecking order" as it were.

You mentioned the neighbors dogs and you have another dog. You didn't mention if those dogs would be females and if they would be altered.

Females in season around an unneutered male is a very bad combination. This is something you should also be aware of. An unaltered male can become very agressive when there is a female in heat in the area.

Do keep us informed.

PHRottn
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PHRottn
HRottn@PetHobbyist.com" target="_blank">My Email

Rott-N-Dogues make excellent best friends!

It is called "Aggression in Dogs" and it is by Brenda Aloff. And she suggests a book called "The Canine Aggression Book" by James O'Heare. The first book is quite pricey, it is $50, but is supposed to be good. A few things that she says are not to use chokes or collars on aggressive dogs as that will make them more aggressive. She suggests head halters, such as the Halti or Gentle Leader. She also says NEVER to alpha-roll an aggressive dog to show him who is leader. She says not to use any negative (pain producing) training on an aggressive dog. There is a whole lot more to the book than that, that is just what I have picked up in reading the first few chapters.
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sue, cheyenne the American bulldog bully, and nehi, her long suffering border collie/pit bull mix