Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am unsure where this post should really go, I cant seem to find the exact right category, MinPin, rescue, breeding etc… maybe someone can point me in the right direction?…
Here’s my story… I work in a barren & industrial neighborhood where wild and abandoned dogs are an all to unfortunate norm and yesterday, while outside on a break one of our trucker/clients pointed out a little abandoned scared & filthy dog that they had been observing all day. I went over to investigate & found a terrified and shaking beautiful lil’ doggie. W/ some coaxing & some dog food I was able to bring her inside with the possibility of making her a new family member, make an appointment w/ a vet & take her there right away to be checked out. Turns out she is a pure bread Miniature Pinscer, maybe 2-or 3 years old, in pretty good health after the removal of a tick and cleaning a wound on her throat. She is also pregnant. The vet is 99% sure she is along maybe about 2 weeks. He did an ultra sound, & possibly sees 3 pups, but may be too soon to tell. I am bringing her back later to see if there is any growth to make absolutely certain. He gave her rabies shot for now ( ..Not wanting to cause any possible harm to the UN born lil’ fellas.) I will keep regular w/ this vet and act on any suggestions he has to offer, but I am looking for more info on the whole pre natal, birth, post natal type thing. In my childhood have lived w/ birthing dogs & cats but it seems from the MinPin link that there is a whole lot more to it these days! This is a wonderful little dog that loved her bath, is already protective of her own food bowl and is interacting with my cats very well considering she has only been there a day. She clearly used to have an owner that housebroke her, taught her some commands etc. She is very well behaved and grateful to be somewhere safe. I am going to put some effort into finding her original owner, but I don’t really foresee much success due to our neighbor hood. Searching the net, I have only found breeder sites, cute stories etc. Does anyone know of any sources for info for a pregnant sweetie.
Sorry for taking up too much space…but I did want to offer some background!

First, let me say it is wonderful of you to be caring for this poor little girl!

>>make an appointment w/ a vet & take her there right away to be checked out. Turns out she is a pure bread Miniature Pinscer, maybe 2-or 3 years old, in pretty good health after the removal of a tick and cleaning a wound on her throat. She is also pregnant. The vet is 99% sure she is along maybe about 2 weeks. He did an ultra sound, & possibly sees 3 pups, but may be too soon to tell.

Let me start here. Even the most experienced canine reproductive specialists cannot tell you how many puppies you have based on an ultrasound. Even ex-rays are not perfectly reliable, but ultraounds, while they can confirm pregnancy after a certain point, are pretty useless for counting pups. Also, you simply cannot detect pregnancy at 2 weeks along. It's impossible. There is no method on the planet that will tell you at that point. Ultrasound is somewhat reliable along around 23 days. That is the soonest you'd even think of it being reliable.

I only am stressing this for two reasons: One, you need to know when she's really likely to have her pups, and two, you probably need to find a vet who knows more about canine reproduction. I have had general practice vets all ME to come in and help them whelp litters; most general practice vets simply do not see reproduction work and are clueless on how to whelp a litter of puppies, and are not a good resource when it comes to even a normal whelping, let alone one with problems.

However, I think that the best thing to do is spay her. Since she is only 2-3 weeks along, spaying her now would spare her the risks of whelping, and prevent bringing any more homeless little puppies into the world. Obviously you are a good and kind person who would never just cast the puppies out, but even the most CAREFUL placements can go wrong sometimes. Since you don't have a pedigree on her or the father of the puppies, you cannot evaluate health or temperament issues for the litter. Frankly you don't even know what BREED the father is - what if he's a big dog, and the puppies are too big to be born naturally?

>> He gave her rabies shot for now ( ..Not wanting to cause any possible harm to the UN born lil’ fellas.)

I hope you mean he did NOT give her the rabies shot? It's never wise to vaccinate a pregnant bitch.

She sounds like a wonderful dog and I'm sure you are going to give her a wonderful home. Please think hard before bringing this litter into the world. So many things can go wrong, and there are already so many unwanted pups in the world.
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/

Well, I must say you points were also some of my concerns.
When I took her to this new vet he said that in all his years of practice he has only cared for 3 pregnant animals and a lot of what he was saying were mostly guesses. I had asked this vet the about the possibility of aborting, the size of the father etc. …and what he though about it. He just kind of evaded the question and said it wasn’t possible for a big dog & a little dog to breed together.
But then how do new breeds and sizes evolve I ask?
Yes, he DID give her a rabies shot. He said that since it was a dead virus it wouldn’t harm her/them.
I’m scared now!
I have just called my usual vet at your suggestion and they say they have a lot of experience w/ pregnancies. I am going to pick up her records and ultrasound photo to bring with us.
Why the 2 vets? My usual one was very backed up w/ appointments & couldn’t see her right away. The 2nd vet office is well respected and recommended too. At best, I will have a second opinion & be more informed.
I too think the birth may be very hard for her. She is so tiny, yet fat like a watermelon. Her teats are still dry as the vet said. I am a big advocate of spaying/neutering also.
This is still a hard decision.
Thank you so much for your help & I would be happy to keep you posted if you like.
Thanks again.

>>I had asked this vet the about the possibility of aborting, the size of the father etc. …and what he though about it. He just kind of evaded the question and said it wasn’t possible for a big dog & a little dog to breed together.

LOL, oh he is SO WRONG! I have a friend who had a dachshund female and an Afghan hound male, the doxie bitch got up on the BED and stood up there while the Afghan bred her. A friend's Lab spread eagled himself on a chain link fence to breed Jack Russell Terrier who was INSIDE the kennel run. I saw a giant breed bitch lie down on the ground so a SHIH TZU could breed her.

In fact, several similar stories are coming to mind as I type this, including a Great Dane male and a chow chow female. Trust, me, dad could be much bigger than mom!

>>Yes, he DID give her a rabies shot. He said that since it was a dead virus it wouldn’t harm her/them.

Well, the rabies vaccine drug label does not warn against giving to a pregnant animal, although it would not be my choice.

>>Thank you so much for your help & I would be happy to keep you posted if you like.
>>Thanks again.

Please, yes, keep me posted! And good luck!
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/

Yes vet #2 agrees w/ you about the big/little-breeding thing. Actually they feel that it is extremely possible that the father is a larger dog due to all the weight she is carrying this early. Pups are about 4wks along.
(Estimated in part by their skeletons not being calcified yet, which would have shown up on x-ray.) She has 5 or more pups brewing in there. I have made an appointment to have her spayed ASAP. Hopefully there won’t be many complications. Vet says their uterus can be so strong while giving birth etc, but during this delicate procedure they can just “fall apart”. He thinks it’s still early enough. Boy that 1st vet was a boob!
Very surprising that he didn’t have that simple knowledge!
Once again, thanks again!