Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First I want to thank KDiamondDavis for the website link, it was very helpful. I have a 9 month old puppy who still goes pee in the crate. I thought dogs wouldn't go in their living space. He always goes outside and goes to the bathroom before I leave the house. He doesn't go potty in the crate all the time, but usually. He'll go whether it's 2 hours or 9 hours. He definetly goes if he's in there for longer than 6 hours and usually goes from 3-6 hours and sometimes under 3 hours. We know he can hold it because at night he sleeps with us and he can hold it for over 10 hours, easily. He does drink a lot of water but before he goes in the crate we only give him a very small amount (he goes in the crate right away in the morning so he doesn't drink all night either). Shouldn't he be able to hold it longer now? I'm just not sure at what age a puppy should be expected to hold his bladder for long periods of time. I understand if he goes if he's in his crate for a long period of time...he is still a puppy...but sometimes it's just a couple of hours. Anyone have ideas on how to stop him going to the bathrrom in his crate.

>>First I want to thank KDiamondDavis for the website link, it was very helpful. I have a 9 month old puppy who still goes pee in the crate. I thought dogs wouldn't go in their living space. He always goes outside and goes to the bathroom before I leave the house. He doesn't go potty in the crate all the time, but usually. He'll go whether it's 2 hours or 9 hours. He definetly goes if he's in there for longer than 6 hours and usually goes from 3-6 hours and sometimes under 3 hours. We know he can hold it because at night he sleeps with us and he can hold it for over 10 hours, easily. He does drink a lot of water but before he goes in the crate we only give him a very small amount (he goes in the crate right away in the morning so he doesn't drink all night either). Shouldn't he be able to hold it longer now? I'm just not sure at what age a puppy should be expected to hold his bladder for long periods of time. I understand if he goes if he's in his crate for a long period of time...he is still a puppy...but sometimes it's just a couple of hours. Anyone have ideas on how to stop him going to the bathrrom in his crate.>>>>>>>

Avoid having the dog even try to hold it for longer than 10 hours. That can lead to medical problems as well as behavior problems including fear of the crate or other confinement and separation anxiety.

Like people, dogs can wait longer during sleep because the body circulates a chemical during sleep that suppresses the functioning of bowels and bladder. So the fact that a dog can hold it a certain number of hours during the night does NOT mean the dog can do the same thing the rest of the day.

Waste accumulates, and requires plenty of trips outside to be eliminated--this goes for anytime the dog has been confined. Until a dog is fully housetrained, I recommend taking them out once per hour during the times you are at home and awake. Crate time needs to be limited, too.

A dog who has given up on getting out to potty when he needs to go will now need to be removed from using a crate for awhile. Otherwise the habit of pottying in the crate is likely to continue. One way to work this is to create a safe confinement area for the dog that is large enough for him to rest on one end of the area and have papers to potty on the other end. Hopefully you will also change his schedule so that he gets outside often enough to not have to use this area. After a few weeks, he may be able to use the crate again, provided you continue to get him outside often. You will need to thoroughly treat the crate to remove any lingering odors that could be stimulating his instincts to potty in it. A bacterial enzyme odor eliminator product is the most reliable way to remove these odors that dogs can smell and humans cannot.

Other things can be contributing to his having trouble holding it: a diet too high in fiber (inexpensive or weight-reducing dog foods, for example. Dogs do not need high fiber--their intestines operate very differently from human intestines), problems with the eating and drinking schedule, intestinal parasites, urinary tract infection, anxiety (can be caused by punishment or even scolding associated with housetraining or other mistakes, can be caused by excessive crating or dog required to go too long between chances to go outside, and of course other causes as well).
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

Jordan eats Iams puppy food for large breed dogs (50lbs or more). He's already 65lbs so I know we didn't make the wrong choice on the size of dog he was going to be since we wern't sure if he was going to weigh much more than 50lbs. I went online and looked at the fiber content and other nutritional information and it seems ok to me, they talked about how a lot of fiber for a dog was bad just as you did. I hope I'm right about the brand of food I feed my puppy.

His schecule is the same weekly. Two days a week he's in his crate for about 9 hours, one day he's in it for about 5 and the other 4 days he's in it only if we run to the store for an hour or two. Do you think that the difference in time each day confuses him? Could it be that he's just not used to having to hold his bladder for that long? He's fully housetrained and has been for a few months now so he just goes in his crate.

We have just been washing his crate out with normal soap so we'll definitly try using the right kind of soap. Our whole house is pretty much open so we don't have a room to put him in. He's not allowed to go into the bathroom since the kitty litter is in there and he stays out really well even with the cat sitting right at the doorway of the bathroom torturing him! Would it confuse him to start putting him in there during the day? We've worked so hard at keeping him out of that room and I'm not sure if it's something we should break.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

>>Jordan eats Iams puppy food for large breed dogs (50lbs or more). He's already 65lbs so I know we didn't make the wrong choice on the size of dog he was going to be since we wern't sure if he was going to weigh much more than 50lbs. I went online and looked at the fiber content and other nutritional information and it seems ok to me, they talked about how a lot of fiber for a dog was bad just as you did. I hope I'm right about the brand of food I feed my puppy.
>>
>>His schecule is the same weekly. Two days a week he's in his crate for about 9 hours, one day he's in it for about 5 and the other 4 days he's in it only if we run to the store for an hour or two. Do you think that the difference in time each day confuses him? Could it be that he's just not used to having to hold his bladder for that long? He's fully housetrained and has been for a few months now so he just goes in his crate.
>>
>>We have just been washing his crate out with normal soap so we'll definitly try using the right kind of soap. Our whole house is pretty much open so we don't have a room to put him in. He's not allowed to go into the bathroom since the kitty litter is in there and he stays out really well even with the cat sitting right at the doorway of the bathroom torturing him! Would it confuse him to start putting him in there during the day? We've worked so hard at keeping him out of that room and I'm not sure if it's something we should break.
>>
>>Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

Eventually you're likely to have to put the cat's litter box where the dog absolutely cannot get into it. It's just too tempting to try to do it just through training the dog.
With that in mind, perhaps you can secure the box elsewhere and use that bathroom for the dog instead of using a crate for awhile. You don't want to put a young dog behind a closed door, because that leads to the habit of clawing up doors and digging at the flooring at the base of the door. You'll need to use baby gates at the doorway instead, probably two of them to be high enough that the dog can't jump over--one stacked above the other.

Nine hours is too long for him to be crated. Eight hours needs to be the top limit for asking a dog to hold it. If no one can give him a potty break during the day (pet sitter, dog walker, relative, family member coming home for lunch, doggy day care, boarding with the vet, etc), you may have to set up a doggy-door type arrangement for him. Make sure the area he can get to is safe for him to be there alone. A back yard isn't always that safe for the dog when no one is at home.

Some dogs can't make it eight hours, ever. Just like people, their ability to control bowel and bladder varies.

Besides the type of food, another thing about food that can cause a problem is feeding too much, or two much at one time. He needs to eat at least twice a day, and just the amount that keeps him at a good, slim weight.

Clean the crate very thoroughly with a bacterial enzyme odor eliminator product such as Nature's Miracle. If there are further accidents once it has had a few deep treatments with this, you can use white vinegar for accidents you find while they are still fresh and wet. Vinegar doesn't work after urine has had a chance to dry.

A dog can have a urinary tract infection with no apparent symptoms, so be sure to consider this possibility. Sometimes an actual culture is the only way to diagnose it. Urinary tract infections are common in dogs, especially dogs who spend a lot of hours without access to water and and without opportunities for voiding their urine. Water running through the system washes out the bacteria, and when this flow is limited, the risk of infection is greater.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com