Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got a female Dogue/Rot mix. I am interested in your opinions on this particular mix. She is growing at a rapid pace, but she does not have much energy, mainly likes to lay and rest or sleep.

I have cut back her diet as she was becoming too heavy, and I am afraid of bone injury/deforamity. She was 38lbs at 3 moths old. I have had her for about a month and she seems to have grown considerably and is having growing pains.

Reason I went for this mix is that both The Rot and Dogue are aggressive breeds, and the Dogue seems especially to have inbreed health problems, such skin problems.

I hope that this dog grows up to have the pumkin head (From the Dogue) - masssive body and wide rear end (from the Rot)

It is my understanding that cross breeding - say a Dogue with a Rott helps deminish some of the health problems that are found in both breeds and makes the dog more mentally stable and less apt to eat my neighbor's dog or for that matter my neighbor.

I would appreciate your input on how large this dog may get, what kind of temperment it might have?

I owned a Bull Mastiff who was a 170lb beautiful eye catcher, but he was NOT a watch dog. I would like a dog with a bit of an attitude - not a big lumbering mutt or hair trigger vicious attact dog (I did own a high strung Doberman some years back). I would be interested in your comments. Thank.

First off let me state that I have both rotties and Bordeaux. Neither of these breeds should be aggresive to people, but both breeds might be dog aggressive.
As for reducing health problems by cross breeding, that will not happen. In fact a pup from a breeding will carry the genes for all health problems that both parents carry. The only way to lessen the health problems is to health screen dogs before breeding and not using dogs that have health problems in a breeding program.
Puppies from either of these breeds should be active and curious about their surroundings. If this pup is having pain you need to have it checked completely by a vet that is experienced with large breed pups to see if there are any problems - things like hip dysplasia can cripple even young pups.
Both of these breeds are very people orientated and need to have a lot of interaction with their family to be well adjusted. They are working dogs and need to be kept busy and in training all of their lives. This could include obedience, tracking, carting or many other things.
Also as for what this dog will look like, well thats a crap shoot with cross breeds and you mentioned the large rear of a rottie, well a good Bordeaux in working shape will have a large powerful rear. As for head developement a lot will depend on the sex of the pup as in both breeds the females will not have as massive of a head pisce as the male.
I hope you are socializing the pup so that it becomes a happy mature dog and that you find you enjoy your pet as much as I enjoy mine.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

In my opinion as a hobbits and not a breeder, Mastiff breeds come in three types, laid back, vicious and extremely vicious.

The Rottweiler (a Mastiff type dog) falls into the (can be) vicious catagory. They are people aggressive - meaning they will bite people. Most Rots unlike some Mastiff breeds (Brazilian Filas for example) temper their people aggression with judgement. They will become aggressive when their territory is intruded upon or they feel their master is in danger. A mentally healthy well socialized Rot will not go out of its way to bite a human. But you never know what a dog is thinking do you?

The Bullmastiff that I owned was very laid back, didn't even bark (a breed trait). His head was twice the size of a human's head, his body was thickly muscled. If this dog where mean or vicious, I would not be able to restrain him. He was nice to look at - but too laid back and lazy to guard.

I have seen Rot crosses - Rots in my opinion make the best crosses, they ad size to any breed they are crossed with, and again in my opinion the cross takes some of the "mean" out of the Rot but leaves the muscle and the guarding instinct.

As for the Dogues, since there are few of them their blood lines run a bit too close for comfort. Also the fact that the most popular ones are infact hybrid with lovely red coats and stunning blue eyes, well you just have to know that "line breeding" (some would call it inbreeding) has taken place.

The main function of the Dougues was guarding and pit fighting. They are infact very much like the Pitbull in their intolerance to other dogs. They now seem to be bred for that certain look and that look can cost you $1,500 and up.

In short - I hope that for a minimal investment I now own a dog that will grow up to have a pumpkin head - huge chest - strong rear end and stable personality. The color of my dog is mainly red with black eyeliner and lipstick markings around the lips and eyes- she looks like she has make up on and is ready to hit the town !!!

Posted by: VAL911K9 at Thu Feb 12 10:22:51 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

First off let me state that I have both rotties and Bordeaux. Neither of these breeds should be aggresive to people, but both breeds might be dog aggressive.
As for reducing health problems by cross breeding, that will not happen. In fact a pup from a breeding will carry the genes for all health problems that both parents carry. The only way to lessen the health problems is to health screen dogs before breeding and not using dogs that have health problems in a breeding program.
Puppies from either of these breeds should be active and curious about their surroundings. If this pup is having pain you need to have it checked completely by a vet that is experienced with large breed pups to see if there are any problems - things like hip dysplasia can cripple even young pups.
Both of these breeds are very people orientated and need to have a lot of interaction with their family to be well adjusted. They are working dogs and need to be kept busy and in training all of their lives. This could include obedience, tracking, carting or many other things.
Also as for what this dog will look like, well thats a crap shoot with cross breeds and you mentioned the large rear of a rottie, well a good Bordeaux in working shape will have a large powerful rear. As for head developement a lot will depend on the sex of the pup as in both breeds the females will not have as massive of a head pisce as the male.
I hope you are socializing the pup so that it becomes a happy mature dog and that you find you enjoy your pet as much as I enjoy mine.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

>

I am not sure where you are finding these DDB, but none should ever have blue eyes. Eye color should range from dark gold to brown depending on the mask color. Also most DDB here is the US are not tightly line bred as importing from europe is very common and we are still breeding back to european dogs regularly.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

I am not sure where you are finding these DDB, but none should ever have blue eyes. Eye color should range from dark gold to brown depending on the mask color. Also most DDB here is the US are not tightly line bred as importing from europe is very common and we are still breeding back to european dogs regularly.
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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

>>>

"Light Hazel" is accepted, but I have seen "blue eyed" DDB pups at a local breeder and I have seen blue eyed Dogues on the Internet. I like the almost orange yellow colored ones with the pure red coat, those are considered the original "Red Dog"? The blue colored eyes are seen mainly on puppy picuters, maybe they turn another color when they become adults?

As for line breeding and inbreeding I found something that might be of interest:

"Line breeding or inbreeding dogs can actually decrease the incidence of dysplasia in a line. The more inbreeding, the lower the heritability index because inbreeding reduces the total genetic variability, that is, the gene pool is smaller. Inbreeding is not really a bad thing, in fact all purebred dogs are inbred or they would not resemble their breed and would look more like feral dogs. Inbreeding only becomes problematic when undesirable genetic traits are concentrated within the gene pool. This is why a strict culling program along with excellent record keeping is necessary in a breeding program that decides to use this method."

http://www.small-business.me.uk/bulldogs/hips.html

My puppy right now is experiencing "growing pains" it has pain in its hind quaters which radiates from left to right and in it's front quaters. It is limping along. I have cut down on its food and I am giving her asprin, before taking her on short walks. I gather that "growing pains" are normal to Mastiffs - although my Bullmastiff never had them.

By the way you sound like a knowledgeable dedicated breeder. I bought my Bully form a back yard breeder who thought it would be neat to put his bitch together with his neighbors dog and sell the (AKC) puppies cheap.

As the saying goes you get what you pay for and at age three my dog had to be put down due to "Bovine Heart" The heart kept enlarging until it could not pump blood.

Unless you are willing to get a dog form a reputable breeder - who knows what they are doing - the only alternative in my opinion is to find a mix.

thank you, yes I believe myself to be a responsible breeder/dog owner. My bitch (DDB)has been bred 1 time but first she earned multiple championships and also working titles and went through extensice health testing.

As for the blue eyes - all pups have blue eyes that then change to the proper color as they get older.
Also yes, you are correct in that there is a place for line breeding. It is 1 of the ways to work on controling both health problems and concistancy of type of dog. But, it has to be done by a knowledgable person that is aware of all problems that can occure. But then out-crossing has the same problems and that is why knowledge of bloodlines back at least 4 generations is so important. Also health testing, not just the dogs listed on the pedigree, but all the siblings of each dog also to be able to know what each lines weak and strong points are.
If you go to the photo gallery on this forum there are a lot of pictures of DDBs posted. These are some exceptional examples of the breed
I am sorry you lost your Bully at such a young age. The loss of a dog no matter what age is hard, but even harder when it's a young dog.
Also the pain that your pup is having, please have a vet that is either an ortho specialist or one with lots of large breed experiemce check the pup. The vet should be able to recommend something to help with the pain as there are other meds that are better than using asprin. Pano (growth pains) is fairly common in all large breeds and your vet will be able to give you more info on this. I have included a link on Pano for you to read.

Good luck,
Link

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Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

This has been a very interesting exchange and certainly neither of you need my non-expert opinion but of course, the opportunity is almost too good to pass up! LOL Let me preface this with the fact that I am not and never will be a breeder of anything!! Well not intentionally that is.

I have a DDB of whom I am very proud! doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body but does bark and appears to be protecting her territory. She's my pride and joy! She's a rescue, primarily because she didn't meet the breed standard so was a "throw back". I also work with the USBC & DDB Society rescue groups. I should say previously although when the need arises I will help out when I can.

But....... I also have Rottweilers. One with some unfortunate structural maladies. His health problems come from he fact that his line includes "giant rotties" which is an enormous mistake on the Rottweiler breeders in the past. Rottweilers were not originally of "giant" stature but of squat muscle mass. Even though they have a bad rep for aggressiveness, they are not or should not be by nature aggressive. He is predisposed to weak knees which has caused tears in his Anterior Cruciate Ligaments.

His leg problems initially manifested as pano and our initial vet said don't worry, he'll grow out of it and will be fine. I wish then I had not listened to him and had sought a second opinion with an orthopedic specialist. I didn't and he has had one successful repair and hopefully will have the second done soon. Because he had problems he was not as active as he should have been (again my fault) and was a lazy boy. He now weighs in the neighborhood of 175# and I am finding it next to impossible to get his weight down.

I think that you probably have an interesting dog and it will be great if you stick with us here and keep us aprised of it's growth and developement.

Val is one of the most knowledgeable breeders of DDBs but she didn't get that way by chance. She has studied the breed and worked with some of the best breeders in this country. She is also a wonderful trainer not only with this breed but with Rotties, Dobies and I am not sure what other breeds. I believe she just got her certification as an AKC judge in carting (hope I got that right Val). We live a half a country apart but I have had the honor and fortune to meet her and watch her work with her dogs at the DDB Nationals in Austin TX last year.

Where I'm going with my praise of Val is to tell you she's not just some person out there that's trying to prove anything to you. She doesn't have to. So please take heed to what she's got to say. If she doesn't know something she can darned sure turn you to someone or an authoritive source for you to get information from.

Good luck with your dog and as I said, please do keep us informed as to how things are going.
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PHRottn
HRottn@PetHobbyist.com" target="_blank">My Email

Rott-N-Dogues make excellent best friends!

don't have the judging certificate yet, but am working on it and hopefully will have it soon.
-----
Val.
proudly owned by
Majic the Rotten
Purl - the Nottweiler (Dogue de Bordeaux)
Quest - the otherweiler (DDB)
Chrissy & Tina who have earned their wings

This has been a very interesting exchange and certainly neither of you need my non-expert opinion but of course, the opportunity is almost too good to pass up! LOL Let me preface this with the fact that I am not and never will be a breeder of anything!! Well not intentionally that is.

I have a DDB of whom I am very proud! doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body but does bark and appears to be protecting her territory. She's my pride and joy! She's a rescue, primarily because she didn't meet the breed standard so was a "throw back". I also work with the USBC & DDB Society rescue groups. I should say previously although when the need arises I will help out when I can.

But....... I also have Rottweilers. One with some unfortunate structural maladies. His health problems come from he fact that his line includes "giant rotties" which is an enormous mistake on the Rottweiler breeders in the past. Rottweilers were not originally of "giant" stature but of squat muscle mass. Even though they have a bad rep for aggressiveness, they are not or should not be by nature aggressive. He is predisposed to weak knees which has caused tears in his Anterior Cruciate Ligaments.

His leg problems initially manifested as pano and our initial vet said don't worry, he'll grow out of it and will be fine. I wish then I had not listened to him and had sought a second opinion with an orthopedic specialist. I didn't and he has had one successful repair and hopefully will have the second done soon. Because he had problems he was not as active as he should have been (again my fault) and was a lazy boy. He now weighs in the neighborhood of 175# and I am finding it next to impossible to get his weight down.

I think that you probably have an interesting dog and it will be great if you stick with us here and keep us aprised of it's growth and developement.

Val is one of the most knowledgeable breeders of DDBs but she didn't get that way by chance. She has studied the breed and worked with some of the best breeders in this country. She is also a wonderful trainer not only with this breed but with Rotties, Dobies and I am not sure what other breeds. I believe she just got her certification as an AKC judge in carting (hope I got that right Val). We live a half a country apart but I have had the honor and fortune to meet her and watch her work with her dogs at the DDB Nationals in Austin TX last year.

Where I'm going with my praise of Val is to tell you she's not just some person out there that's trying to prove anything to you. She doesn't have to. So please take heed to what she's got to say. If she doesn't know something she can darned sure turn you to someone or an authoritive source for you to get information from.

Good luck with your dog and as I said, please do keep us informed as to how things are going.
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PHRottn
My Email

Rott-N-Dogues make excellent best friends!

>>>>

Thanks for your kind words and interest. I want to add that I have been looking for this type of cross for a long time. The three type of crosses that I was most interested in where the Neo (Italian) Mastiff/Rot cross, Bullmastiff/Rot cross and the DDB/Rot cross.

I am not a breeder but I am not unfamiliar about these breeds. I am was also not looking to get a "cheap" dog, I really wanted a specific mix. As far as "breed standards" I will pass on what I have heard to you, and you can check it out further if you wish.

The Rottweiler is a Mastiff type dog. It's size is not etched in stone, however your 175lb Rott exceeds breed standards and would not be accepted by the AKC in competition. Your dog has some large breed problems but even if it where perfect it would not be accepted because of size.

There is a mini-movement to sperate the giant Rottweilers into their own category - "American Rottweiler". Breeders are in business to give the public what they want and many people are not happy with a 90lb bitch and 110lb male Rottwielers. Americans like big things and when looking for a dog as a pet we tend to look at the size of the paws and the size of the pups as well as the size of the parents.

My guess is that 99% of those getting Rots or Mastiffs are looking for a huge dog that goes "Aarf Aarf" in the back yard. There are people who want or need a Rott for work - such as police departments and they need a dog of a certain size, one that can move around easily and does not get tired fast, that is why most police Rots are not giant and also that is why most most police dogs are German Shepards.

The size and the power that distinguish Mastiffs have been bred into the breed for tasks that are not common today, such as fighting Bears and Lions in the ring, DDBs where used for pit fighting other massive dogs , Mastiffs where used for bull baiting and ripping well armed men to shreds on the battle field.

DDBs have a tendency to revert, they come out with a long lanky body with long Shepard like nose. They loose the look for the standard Dogue de Bordeaux, which breeders have taken pains to breed into them. Maybe this is the case with your resque dog?

My puppies "Pano" has much improved with a change of diet. I may switch to a low calorie adult food until the puppy has gotten past that stage. If your dog has structural problems you need to change the food to a weight loss adult dog food and force the dogs weight down to an appropriate weight. That is the first thing that you need to do, since you feel that 175lbs is too big for the frame, just offer the dog a diet food and lessen the portions over the space of a month or so.

If anyone is interested in serious Mastiff crosses, I suggest that they do a search using these key words: American Mastiff (Should contain Rot plus other Mastiff type dogs), Band Dogs (Mastiff crosses with pit bulls).

The Band dog is used for serious hog hunting, protection work and most likely illegal pit fighting. For general interest you can also try "Cuban Bloodhound" A large and ferocious Dogue de Bordeaux / Bloodhound cross, bred for hunting fugitive slaves in Cuba and Florida. "Crack Dog" Rottweiler pitbull cross used by Crack dealers for protection. The Bull Mastiff and the Brazilian Fila are both examples of recognized Mastiff crosses.

I may breed my dog with a Presa Canario but only if there is an interest in the mix before breeding. I am NOT interested in breeding mutts and if there is no real interest for a three Mastiff mix I will spay my dog and just have a large protective pet.

Yeah Jake is on a diet so that we can get his weight down for his other knee surgery. And no he would never make it in the confirmation ring, way beyond breed standards.

I hate that people haven't stuck to the original Rottie standards.

There are good foods out there for "large breed puppies" that have the right nutrients but not the fat and calories that cause them to get too large.

Good luck in your persuit of your perfect dog.
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PHRottn
HRottn@PetHobbyist.com" target="_blank">My Email

Rott-N-Dogues make excellent best friends!

Hello i also have a ddb male whom is 2 years and he is awsome with our family and our close friends but he is a gard dog by all means of the word it takes him a few times to meet someone and like them and then he well never forget them but when we go out and people want to pet him we do tell them NO just as sometime you never know and i can see it in his little eyes when he has had enough he also cant stand male dogs no we have a male shepard and they are only together when we are in the room we also have 2 american bulldog but anyways as far as a gard dog goes the ddb are the best i also think that the females are much nicer and i do beleave it depends on the lines we got are ddb from one of the best lines out there and we paid good money for him

Crystal