Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all! I normally lurk on the Burmese Python Forum but need help with my Blue Chow pup.

I'm a 36 y/o male with a wife and 2 girls. We owned a chow mix for 2 years (rescue) and had to put him to sleep due to ilness. We now have a 3.5 month old pure Blue Chow. He's been a great dog and we love him to death but....he's starting to get really agressive with my wife and kids around food and chewy's or when napping. With me he has virtually no problems. I've been reading the Leerburb website and getting advice from his articles but also wanted to see if any of you had advice. My wife is currently feeding him from her hand and he's even started to growl at her when she pulls her hand away. We now have a prong collar for him which is effective. With me he barely needs a tug and he's great. he won't pull or anything. With my wife, he'll bark and growl and try to bite her once he gets going and she tries to correct him, even with the prong collar on! Again, this is primarily while feeding. If he gets into it with her and I come around, he settles down quick. Of course in the pack mentality I am the dominant male but how do we get our dog to respect and stop his aggression towards my wife and kids. Thanx for any inputs anyone may have.

DZ

First, welcome to the forum! I had a chow mix for many years, she was the great love of my life!

I would call what you describe resource guarding more than plain agression, and I hope that you'll get some helpful responses in dealing with it. I will say that my Colleen was a resource guarder also, although she would never guard anything from me. She reserved her guarding to other dogs, and I'm sure she'd have growled or bitten a human other than me or my mom if they tried to take food away from her. I say this freely now that she's gone, as during her life I was careful never to admit that I "knew" she might bite one day. She never DID bite, she was never put in a situation where she COULD bite, but she had the potential definitely. So I took my responsibility VERY SERIOUSLY.

I would never have allowed Colleen to be anywhere near a child of any age, or any non-dog person, when food was around. I could never have trusted her.

Now, is it possible if I were a better trainer or had access to other methods she could have been trained out of this behavior? Possible, but not likely, as she was two years old when I got her from the shelter. But this is a puppy who you have raised yourself, so I think you can be more hopeful.

I am not sure what else will be suggested to you, but I believe there is a new book called MINE! which is about resource guarding. I can't recall the author, let me see if I can locate it. Needless to say a quick google of the word "mine" was not helpful. <G>
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Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/
Dogged Blog

>>First, welcome to the forum! I had a chow mix for many years, she was the great love of my life!
>>
>>I would call what you describe resource guarding more than plain agression, and I hope that you'll get some helpful responses in dealing with it. I will say that my Colleen was a resource guarder also, although she would never guard anything from me. She reserved her guarding to other dogs, and I'm sure she'd have growled or bitten a human other than me or my mom if they tried to take food away from her. I say this freely now that she's gone, as during her life I was careful never to admit that I "knew" she might bite one day. She never DID bite, she was never put in a situation where she COULD bite, but she had the potential definitely. So I took my responsibility VERY SERIOUSLY.
>>
>>I would never have allowed Colleen to be anywhere near a child of any age, or any non-dog person, when food was around. I could never have trusted her.
>>
>>Now, is it possible if I were a better trainer or had access to other methods she could have been trained out of this behavior? Possible, but not likely, as she was two years old when I got her from the shelter. But this is a puppy who you have raised yourself, so I think you can be more hopeful.
>>
>>I am not sure what else will be suggested to you, but I believe there is a new book called MINE! which is about resource guarding. I can't recall the author, let me see if I can locate it. Needless to say a quick google of the word "mine" was not helpful. <G>
>>-----
>>Christie Keith
>>Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
>>Holistic Husbandry since 1986
>>www.caberfeidh.com/
>>Dogged Blog
>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Jean Donaldson wrote the book "Mine." For a more basic description of this problem, my article may be of some help: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1462&S=1&SourceID=47
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

I don't have any real suggestions, it just sounds like he has no respect for the other members of the "pack" and he needs to learn that they are the givers of food, they don't take it away. Maybe try holding him back on his leash while he watches the other members put his food dish down (at a safe distance from him) before you let him eat.

This is very common in chows, is it not? I only met 5 chows in my life but every single one had aggression problems. You're very lucky he's still young. I'm sure he's not easy to hold back but it will be a lot harder to control this when he gets some of that big chow bulk.

Personally I would seek out a good trainer or behaviourist very soon, before this is completely out of control..

Thanx for the suggestions and the book to look up. When I (Susan - the wife) feed him I have no issues getting the food to him. He listens to my commands and will sit and wait for me to tell him he can eat. I can even tell him to sit once he starts to eat and he will most of the time stop, sit, and wait until I tell him it is ok to return. Most of the problem is if I leave then walk by him later, or is while I am still there I talk and either pet or inadvertantly touch him. With his chewys most of the time I can tell him they are mine and he will drop them or let me take them from his mouth. However, there are times I can walk in the room no where near him and he starts to growl. I can correct him in the same way my husband does (which is very effective for him) and the dog looses his mind. The only way I kept from getting bit the other day was to put a pillow between me and him. Needless to say this I am getting very frusterated!!
That is where we are. I will look at the resources you suggested.

Hi, I am Eric, Susan's husband. We've been reading the Leerburg site on how to deal with Bruno (the dog). As of yesterday Bruno became mine! I have to do everything with him until he recognizes me as the pack leader. For the most part he was already there however this morning he growled at me over a chewy the same as he does my wife. I corrected him and took it away. Everything he does has to be allowed by me or he simply doesn't do/get it. Hopefully this will go well and we can start involving the rest of the family. Still at the beggining of this training style.

>>Hi, I am Eric, Susan's husband. We've been reading the Leerburg site on how to deal with Bruno (the dog). As of yesterday Bruno became mine! I have to do everything with him until he recognizes me as the pack leader. For the most part he was already there however this morning he growled at me over a chewy the same as he does my wife. I corrected him and took it away. Everything he does has to be allowed by me or he simply doesn't do/get it. Hopefully this will go well and we can start involving the rest of the family. Still at the beggining of this training style.

>>>>>>>>>>

I don't have a good feeling about this method. It's quite likely to make the dog even more aggressive toward those in the family (your wife and kids) that he perceives as being weaker. When you dominate a dog, you teach the dog to use that style with others. The Leerburg methods are geared more for police-type dogs, and a Chow is a whole other type of animal, totally different.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

We have adapted from the Leerburg method. We still keep him on a leash while in the house but not outside. We also have the entire family partaking in the festivities. With the kids I stay with them and coach them until I know they can handle a situation and consistently work the scenario. I've read allot on timing and my kids timing is really bad. They forget allot and are unsure and I think Bruno is confused enough as it is. Once they show consistancy and are able to handle a growl or grumble, I'll back off but will still be within a 5 second response. Hopefully this will show him he is still number 5 and must obey them even when I am not around.

Thanx for the advice.

DZ

>>As of yesterday Bruno became mine! I have to do everything with him until he recognizes me as the pack leader. For the most part he was already there however this morning he growled at me over a chewy the same as he does my wife.

Okay, let me say something I should have said before... throw the damned chewies away. Dog doesn't need them, they simply make a problem where there should be none. Once you have the FOOD issues dealt with, when this dog is reliable, consider treats. But for now, work on the basics. Treats that lie around to be guarded should be off limits.

next, a biggie... you are not the alpha. The entire HOUSE of humans, children included, are the leaders. Every single one of you. Please read the How to become alpha article. have the whole family read it. Understand that this pup's life depends on your whole family GETTING IT and turning this around fast. The author of that article is the head of the USA CHow rescue, btw.

And again, if you need help, please email me.

To the person who said they had only bet bad chows, that makes me sad. I have met predominately great chows. I do rescue. Most of the time, its the owner's lack of knowing how to train, read and live with them that makes the problem. Which is why I only place chows in homes that have successfully owned chows before. They are not for everyone, but with care their hearts and loyalty are unrivaled.
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

>>I've been reading the Leerburb website

Hi! Well first of all, did you mean leerburg? If so, stop reading. While his methods, very heavy handed, can be used on rotties and gsd and dobermans, on chows you are setting yourself up for far more problems than you started with! manhandling a dog with low bite inhibition is a disaster waiting to happen!

Here are some links to help. PLEASE do not hesitate to email me privately.

Most chows bite and owners express surprise saying they dog NEVER showed any signs before. YET you find out these dogs were untrained, did what they wanted, etc. It is a BIG clue, cause that indicates that the dog always probably thought they were the alpha and just didn't have reason, or hadn't
promoted herself sufficiently enough to bite YET. IOW, they failed to read the signs.

It is great you recognize that you have a problem, but you must understand that heavy handed responses will make this breed WORSE. Dogs, not just chows, BITE when they think they are the boss when they think underlings need discipline. When you use such physical responses, they simply wait til they think they are big and bad enough to take you on. Fortunately, with most chows, it is dominance, not unstable aggression. That means that if you are smart you can raise your pup to understand that the humans are the alphas BEFORE the issue of biting becomes serious. You can train them without using physical harsh corrections. Again, train SMART.

If someone suggests that you do PHYSICAL things with her (like alpha rolls), RUN from them VERY fast, for they are morons.

Now, how to demote this pup without getting physical? It is amazingly easy when you do it in ways the dog understands.

NOW is the time to be teaching bite inhibition:

Dog Owner's Guide: "No bite!"
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html

THE DOG ZONE - BITE INHIBITION
http://www.dogzone.com/reading/inhibit.htm

No Bite for Puppies and Young Dogs
http://www.doggiedoor.com/nobite.htm

Dog Owner's Guide: "No bite!"
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html

AND deal with resource guarding:

Food Guarding k9Deb
http://k9deb.com/foodguar.htm

Dominance aggression and food guarding issues
http://www.geocities.com/jetflair/foodguarding.html

DogTip FoodAggression
http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_FoodAggression.html

AND most important, set up, without abusive response, that the humans are the leaders:

Chow Chow Welfare: Who's In Charge Here? A Lesson In Becoming Alpha
http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/alpha.htm

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=984

Building Pack Drive through Grooming: KDD
http://k9deb.com/drives.htm
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Debra
ebraDownSth@aol.com" target="_blank">DebraDownSth@aol.com
Blessed Are The Flexible For They
Shall Not Be Bent Out of Shape.]

Please Please Listen to Kathy and Debra. I have known Debra for 6 yrs now, even before I got my Big Ben. She is very wise. When we got Ben we had not children.

Get the dog to training ASAP. If the children are old enough the trainer should allow them to participate.

Ben is a fabulous Chow. When we introduced our daughter (now almost 3) there were NO problems. She can take things from Ben, Jamie and Maggie is learning. I mean straight from the mouth. She helps me feed them, she "helps" me walk them. we have established her as alpha above our 3 dogs. They will not even rough house around her so they can't knock her down.

Please get the dog into training, and Listen to Kathy (who helped me learn how to introduce the baby to the dogs) and Debra who has helped me with everyday things. I have never had a problem with Ben, Jamie and like I said Maggie is learning fast (came to us with no training at 4)
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Rachel,John,Angela
Big Ben,Jamie & Maggie
There is a time and a season for everything...Just remember what ever it is,God is always holding you in His arms.