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To all you people considering a shelter dog - for god's sake do tons of research, babysit as many bratty adolescent dogs as you can get your hands on and never assume that what you saw at the shelter is what you're bringing home.

Kaiser lunged at a woman and small child this morning on our walk.

He was on his halti and did not get within 4 feet of them and no farther than 18" from me, but it scared the living daylights out of me, the woman, and the baby.

When we got home I had a complete breakdown of faith that I can reverse whatever was done to him in the past. It's been 5 weeks of almost solid stress so far and it's really starting to wear on me. Of course none of it is his fault, I just wish I could wring the neck of the woman that put him in this awful situation. A huge portion of it is my fault as well for not knowing better what I was getting into but after I calmed down a little I was happier than ever that I adopted Kaiser. At least I'm willing to work with it and do whatever it takes, what if he had gone to someone else? At the shelter he seemed perfectly happy and well-adjusted, what if someone with children had adopted him? He probably would have been euthanized after attacking a child.

So the plan is to take him for his walks at night around 10 or 11 when there aren't any people around. Extra intensive obedience training for at least a few months until he listens to me, Matt, and all other people he sees regularly without fail. In the meantime I'm to have as many people over as possible while he's on his halti and lead, and those people are to give him his obedience commands and treats to combat his dominance issues. They'll also touch anything and everything in the house that they like to desensitize him to his property aggression, and Karen says to make sure to gradually get him used to physical contact between us and visitors. She says handshakes, hugs, arms around shoulders with people in my home will help desensitize the protective aggression.

I'm also looking into buying a car so that when we get all of these issues to a manageable stage and he is reliably obedient we can get him to true obedience classes and eventually to Frisbee because he's so agile. Until now I've never had a use for a car but it's seeming worthwhile suddenly. Karen says his obedience training is doing remarkably well so far because he's so intelligent and because Kaiser is bonding so well with me and Matt. She says my techniques can only be measured according to how well Kaiser is responding and that I need to continue working as we have been and block out any temptation to try other techniques and listen to various advice from others. Introducing new techniques now will confuse Kaiser more and since he's responding so well to the way we've been working so far, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

She also told me that there's a possibility that he'll never be a well adjusted dog and that he may never be able to take Frisbee. He's nearly a year old and a lot has been done to him, it may be irreversible. I'm hearing it but if I start to believe it Kaiser and I will never get anywhere so for now that's not even a possibility worth considering.

I was not counting on all of this stress. Thanks to everyone for all of your support and ideas, I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't found these boards..

oh Leah, I am so so sorry. You sound like you are at your wits end, and I don't blame you.
But you are right, just keep thinking about the positive things. Thank goodness he is in your hands and not someone else's like you said. Most people wouldn't put in the amount of effort you have. I don't know if I would have been able to be as patient as you have been. You have a really good head on your shoulders.
I know what you mean about not believing what you see in the shelter. It's as if they know they're being adopted so they're on their best behavior while your there, once you get home it's a different story. At the shelter, Cookie was so calm and sweet. She licked and licked but did not bite, she sat and laid down while we were petting her, so on and so forth. Then we got home and she tore the place up (not literally).
Keep working at it, hopefully he will come around. Thank god you got the Halti though, huh? He is definitely more aggressive toward woman than men, that is obvious. What were the woman and child doing, had they even looked at Kaiser? One of them probably made eye contact and he felt threatened. I think thats a good idea, taking him out only at night.
I don't know if this will help you or not, but I find that If I take Cookie to someones house, she is more interested in sniffing around and checking the place out than she is in the actual people. Maybe if you took Kaiser to various peoples houses, and just let him do his thing (on the leash of course) and have no interaction with the people, have them ignore him the whole time he is there and do hugs and hand shaking like you said, maybe he would get desensitized to being around different people and places. Do the same thing at home too though, so he doesn't get defensive about his home. Just a thought, but again, you said you didn't want to introduce him to new training techniques. I don't know if this qualifies or not, but just something to keep in mind.
Good luck, and I really truly hope things work out. Just keep thinking positive and try not to get discouraged. I have faith!

I am at my wit's end but I think I'm going through stages. I've been calling various trainers around here just to see what the different opinions out there are. There are many trainers around here who come to your home to assess the dog. One of them really made me angry. I asked if he could come out and meet Kaiser, he said yes, and then he asked what the situation was. I told him and he flat out said "he's snippy? At 8 months old? He needs to be euthanized." and refused to talk to me any more.

It's not Kaiser's fault he's like this. It's the idiot people that were around him. And he's 8 months old, for god's sake! Less than a year! I don't know how anyone gets off telling any loving dog owner that their *puppy* should just be put down, no more questions asked. He's still just a puppy, of course there's room to turn him around, there has to be! There's no way I'm going to give up completely on a dog that's not even a year old.

Ech.. I'm so mad. What if someone slightly less hard-headed than I am called that trainer and asked him a similar question? How many puppies are being put down because some idiot trainer just can't figure out another way? He's never even met my dog and all I told him was that he's 8 months old, 30lbs, GSD/corgi mix, and can get a little snippy at strangers. Those words, exactly. One woman told me that because there's GSD in his blood there's no hope for him, he'll never be out in public without a muzzle again.

Well, we'll show them.. As stressful as this has been, I think determining exactly what the problem is was the hard part. Now that we know and we have a plan, we'll be fine..

How dare they generalize like that without even meeting my dog. People really.. oi....

Oh right, and every GSD out there is aggressive! That really tics me off. How dare they say anything like that! I would have told him he needs to be euthanized for HIS aggression! Jerk. I hate people like that. I don't understand where they get their reasoning from! I have known some very very well behaived GSD's. People think they're common police dogs because they're aggressive. This is SO not true. They're good police dogs because they're very smart and trainable.
I believe that ANY dog is trainable, no matter HOW aggressive. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks, but Kaiser isn't even old! He's only 8 months old! No puppy should ever be euthanized for any reason. He is aggressive because he doesn't know any better, not because he wants to be aggressive. He obviously didn't have a choice but to be aggressive in his previous situation. He just has to be shown that he doesn't have to be aggressive anymore and it's just a matter of figuring out how to get that point across to him. If only dogs understood english. I have faith in you. You're doing a wonderful job and he has come a long way since you first got him, he wouldn't even trust you at first, would he? How could this guy have become a trainer? Does he know ANYTHING about dogs? Jeez! You and I could be better trainers than that guy!
I am so sorry to hear of your dismay, but now you know who the good trainers are, and you can tell everyone who asks you, NOT to go to those bad ones. LOL I am so mad, I want to go protest outside his facilities! With a bunch of well behaived GSD's! The nerve of him!!

I found this while browsing for trainers and I think we have a winner. I sent them an email asking if we could sit in on a session and to get a price list. The trainer has 5 GSD's! And this is what she has to say:

All breeds and all ages are capable of being trained. The old saying that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks is just that – an old saying. It is best to start young with your dog and try to develop good habits from the start. If you allow them to develop bad habits then the bad habits must be changed before the desired habits become a reality.

Obedience training is all about being able to communicate with your dog and having your dog understand what you desire of them. Without training they may get a mixed message. Their natural instinctive behavior is to lead the pack. With training we try to be consistent to the dog understands what we expect. We become the leader.

The happiest dogs around are working dogs. Dogs that have a purpose in their life. They are able to spend more time with their owners and there is less confusion as to exactly what you expect of them. They don’t end up tied to a tree or locked in the cellar.

So take all extra pressure of being the leader and the boss of your dog and take in on yourself. Train your dog today and they will be happier and more relaxed because of it, and so will you.

I thought that might cheer you up, there are some good trainers out there, and this one says you can train a dog any age!

I'm surprised the shelter or some one didn't tell you that all dogs act differently in a shelter environment.
Once they are adopted and get settled and feel "at home" their personality will come out.
Where are you obedience training? Just in your house? Out in your yard?
Did your trainer say anything about slowly adding distractions?
He may be perfectly trained at home, and the the day you go among alot of distractions, he'll not remember anything if he has never been exposed to them.
I'm glad you're commited to him for his lifetime.
He may well be a dog you can never trust. Especially off leash among a crowd of people.
So much of a dogs temperment comes from breeding but a big part of it comes from socialisation during their critical learning period.
And if bad things happened during his fear stage he may not ever get over it.
He can be managable by you, but that will be all.
Good luck!
I hope it works out.
Will be watching to hear of your success.

We know that he may never be safe with other people but that's just par for the course I guess when you adopt a shelter dog.

I know right now I will probably never, ever trust him off leash and I'm perfectly okay with that. Unless it's on private property I feel strongly that no dog, no matter how obedient they may seem, should be off leash. As for being around people, as long as I learn the skills I need to keep him under control I think we'll be fine.. I know he'll never be reliable around strangers but that's okay - I wanted a guard dog and that's definitely what I got. He went nuts the other day when even the vet shook my hand.. Of course we're going to work with it as much as we can so that it's not *that* drastic, but the main reason I got a dog was as a sort of bodyguard and companion.. In him so far I definitely have both.

We know about gradually adding distractions. We're going to work for another week or so in the house first, he's got pretty good manners in the house but I want to make sure that they're really solid before we move on.. There's no deadline and I don't want to rush things only to have to take a couple of steps back again. After I'm sure he's got a good solid foundation in the house we'll move out to the yard until he seems reliable, and then gradually work into walking outside the yard.. I know it will take months but I want to take everything extra slow with him to make sure nothing happens to damage the work we've done.

Right now he definitely does forget much of what he knows but he does come to me fairly reliably and once I have his attention he will sit or down for me..

I think what makes the walks so difficult is that he's a very unique, cute dog so people tend to be drawn to him and want to pet him and play with him.. I'm trying not to tell people that he bites because there's a law here that a "potentially vicious" dog has to be on a leash 5' or less and muzzled any time he's outside. I don't want to use a muzzle and he's not a large dog so I can control him very effictiently with his halti if I need to. All it would take to have him deemed a potentially dangerous dog is a call from some nervous neighbour to the city hall. So I just tell approaching people "we're still training and he's not used to meeting strangers yet.. Please don't get too close.." I figured that's a warning but doesn't sound as offensive as telling them "If you get too close he might try to rip your arm off.." Of course that's exaggerating but you get my point..

We'll keep working.. Thank you for the good luck wishes, I have a feeling we need as many as we can get..

You're lucky you have so much patience! You should have seen me trying to cut and file Cookies nails the other morning. I got them done, but only after a lot of aggrivation! But I want her to get used to me doing it, so we don't have to rely on going to the vet everytime she needs them cut. And she made up for it being good in the bath last night.
Sounds like you really know what you're doing with Kaiser. As the two of you get to know each other more, the easier it will get because you'll be able to predict his moves and his body language. Just take your time and I am sure he will come around. At first, we thought Cookie would never be comfortable in her crate and as soon as we were losing hope, she got better. She still cries a little but not like she was. Now we can hear the 8 week old GSD mix across the street crying, and we can't help but smile. It's hard to imagine she was ever like that.
Good luck with Kaiser! We are anxiously waiting for updates!

>>You're lucky you have so much patience! You should have seen me trying to cut and file Cookies nails the other morning. I got them done, but only after a lot of aggrivation! But I want her to get used to me doing it, so we don't have to rely on going to the vet everytime she needs them cut. And she made up for it being good in the bath last night.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another option on nails is a groomer. Many of them will book you in for a quick appointment if you call ahead. You just have to wait quietly out of sight so they can work on your dog without her being distracted. Groomers are very good at doing nails.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

I will definitely consider that if it becomes too much of a hassle, but I would like her to get used to me doing it. She doesn't mind me cutting them at all, she just doesn't like me filing them, but they are so sharp after you cut them. She's not horrible about it, she just tried to chew on my hands, so I'd like to keep trying it myself, and hopefully she will get better about it.
I am SO mad I didn't take pictures of her in the tub. The look on her face was priceless!

>>I will definitely consider that if it becomes too much of a hassle, but I would like her to get used to me doing it. She doesn't mind me cutting them at all, she just doesn't like me filing them, but they are so sharp after you cut them. She's not horrible about it, she just tried to chew on my hands, so I'd like to keep trying it myself, and hopefully she will get better about it.
>>I am SO mad I didn't take pictures of her in the tub. The look on her face was priceless!

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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com