Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here for Dragon Serpents
https://www.crepnw.com/
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

House training and Neutering

hreason Mar 04, 2005 12:39 PM

Does neutering a puppy help with house training him? Our puppy is completely erratic about where it goes to the bathroom. Lately, we have been taking him outside, and he waits to go to the bathroom until we have him inside again. WHY? Is it possible that we aren't being stern enough when he does go to the bathroom inside the house? We say "NO!" in a serious voice and we take him outside, and we praise him when he does go to the bathroom outside. He always seems surprised when we praise him for going to the bathroom outside, like he doesn't know why we are saying "good boy." Maybe we should start giving him treats when he goes outside? Does anybody have any advice? He also seems to be pretending to go to the bathroom outside (he gets in the position), but he doesn't actually go until we get back in the house. I read another post about dogs having a bladder infection. He doesn't seem to be in pain, but he is acting strange. Thank you.

Replies (12)

KDiamondDavis Mar 05, 2005 02:17 AM

>>Does neutering a puppy help with house training him? Our puppy is completely erratic about where it goes to the bathroom. Lately, we have been taking him outside, and he waits to go to the bathroom until we have him inside again. WHY? Is it possible that we aren't being stern enough when he does go to the bathroom inside the house? We say "NO!" in a serious voice and we take him outside, and we praise him when he does go to the bathroom outside. He always seems surprised when we praise him for going to the bathroom outside, like he doesn't know why we are saying "good boy." Maybe we should start giving him treats when he goes outside? Does anybody have any advice? He also seems to be pretending to go to the bathroom outside (he gets in the position), but he doesn't actually go until we get back in the house. I read another post about dogs having a bladder infection. He doesn't seem to be in pain, but he is acting strange. Thank you.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Treats are good. Do not punish a dog in housetraining. That backfires in a very big way. I don't see mention of the dog's age. As testosterone starts to rise, it does become very important to neuter a tiny-breed male dog if you want him to be able to become fully housetrained. Your veterinarian can advise you on the best time for the surgery. And yes, I'd have him checked for an infection, too.

I have some articles about housetraining, including Housetraining Small Dogs, that may help. Here's a link to the alphabetized Table of Contents:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

hreason Mar 05, 2005 03:00 PM

Thank you for your advice. I read several of your articles and they are very helpful. My puppy is almost 4 months old. He is going to the vet on Monday for some shots so we can talk to the vet then about neutering and other stuff. I had been taking my puppy to the back yard to go to the bathroom, but yesterday I took him to the front yard and he seems to be much more agreeable to that. I know that I probably shouldn't change his potty spot, but I think he might have become afraid or distracted by the backyard because that is where our cats hang out (and he likes to chase them). Also, at night, the coyotes come very close to our backyard because we have acreage behind our house, and the puppy doesn't seem to like to hear their barking. The front yard is more protected and the puppy doesn't get as distracted. I think this might help. If we catch him going to the bathroom inside of the house, is it best to take him outside immediately after? Or does this just confuse him? He likes to play outside, so when he doesn't have to go to the bathroom, he will sniff around or do whatever he wants. Then, when we want him to go to the bathroom, he plays for a little while before he goes to the bathroom. Should we put a limit on how much time he spends outside at a time?

Thank you so much for offering your expertise on this website. You have no idea how helpful it is. And it helps me (and others, I'm sure) become better pet owners and we will have happier pets. I have read a lot of conflicting advice on this subject - especially about what to do when the dog goes to the bathroom inside of the house. I really hate to get my puppy in trouble because he is a very very well behaved puppy, so I really like your advice to just praise them when they do good. I am still just a little unsure of what to do when I catch them in the act. Thank you again.

KDiamondDavis Mar 06, 2005 12:39 AM

>>Thank you for your advice. I read several of your articles and they are very helpful. My puppy is almost 4 months old. He is going to the vet on Monday for some shots so we can talk to the vet then about neutering and other stuff. I had been taking my puppy to the back yard to go to the bathroom, but yesterday I took him to the front yard and he seems to be much more agreeable to that. I know that I probably shouldn't change his potty spot, but I think he might have become afraid or distracted by the backyard because that is where our cats hang out (and he likes to chase them). Also, at night, the coyotes come very close to our backyard because we have acreage behind our house, and the puppy doesn't seem to like to hear their barking. The front yard is more protected and the puppy doesn't get as distracted. I think this might help. If we catch him going to the bathroom inside of the house, is it best to take him outside immediately after? Or does this just confuse him? He likes to play outside, so when he doesn't have to go to the bathroom, he will sniff around or do whatever he wants. Then, when we want him to go to the bathroom, he plays for a little while before he goes to the bathroom. Should we put a limit on how much time he spends outside at a time?
>>
>>Thank you so much for offering your expertise on this website. You have no idea how helpful it is. And it helps me (and others, I'm sure) become better pet owners and we will have happier pets. I have read a lot of conflicting advice on this subject - especially about what to do when the dog goes to the bathroom inside of the house. I really hate to get my puppy in trouble because he is a very very well behaved puppy, so I really like your advice to just praise them when they do good. I am still just a little unsure of what to do when I catch them in the act. Thank you again.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Front yard is fine, sure. As far as handling indoor accidents, if you can catch him in the act, rush him outside saying "no, Outside." When you get outside, prompt him with whatever your cue phrase is to potty here and now, maybe "Go Potty." Your ideal would be to interrupt the process and get him to finish outside so you can praise. If you find an accident after the fact, don't say or do anything toward the dog. Just clean and deodorize the spot.

You can condition a dog to potty quickly outside, but I prefer to just take extra time to let the puppy play around and be sure he has time to finish his business. They need playtime somehow, after all. And you can be showing him things to do to have fun outdoors OTHER than digging!
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

hreason Mar 05, 2005 03:38 PM

I just read some more of your articles and I am wondering if you would suggest making the puppy's potty spot within a fenced in dog cage area. As I said in my previous reply, we were taking the dog to the backyard, and now to the front yard. Neither of these yards are visably fenced in. Our house is in the middle of about two acres of unfenced land. Maybe our puppy needs more defined potty parameters. We have four different dog pens (the previous owners - 13 years ago - had several large dogs). One of the pens is about 5 feet by 10 feet and it is completely closed in (top, bottom, sides) with a dog house at the end of it. Some of the other pens are about 30 feet by 50 feet, and are not covered on the top. Do you think maybe we should put the puppy in the closed in pen for bathroom purposes only, and let it play in the rest of the yard if he wants to play outside? Or do you think it wouldn't differentiate from the pen and the yard? They are both outside, afterall. Is it mean to put a dog in a pen to go to the bathroom? I would stay with him, of course. I just don't know what to do.

KDiamondDavis Mar 06, 2005 12:42 AM

>>I just read some more of your articles and I am wondering if you would suggest making the puppy's potty spot within a fenced in dog cage area. As I said in my previous reply, we were taking the dog to the backyard, and now to the front yard. Neither of these yards are visably fenced in. Our house is in the middle of about two acres of unfenced land. Maybe our puppy needs more defined potty parameters. We have four different dog pens (the previous owners - 13 years ago - had several large dogs). One of the pens is about 5 feet by 10 feet and it is completely closed in (top, bottom, sides) with a dog house at the end of it. Some of the other pens are about 30 feet by 50 feet, and are not covered on the top. Do you think maybe we should put the puppy in the closed in pen for bathroom purposes only, and let it play in the rest of the yard if he wants to play outside? Or do you think it wouldn't differentiate from the pen and the yard? They are both outside, afterall. Is it mean to put a dog in a pen to go to the bathroom? I would stay with him, of course. I just don't know what to do.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

What I like best is for the back door to open right into the dog potty yard. It's easy to supervise, easy to get the dog out frequently, easy to clean up, and easy to keep your dog safe. An isolated pen out in the yard, no, I wouldn't use that. But you might be able to use the materials and move them to put a potty yard outside the back door. Once my dogs are housetrained, a lot of their potty time is with the back door open so they can run in and out while I'm doing something in that room, the kitchen. Very convenient, which means it's easy to give them a minimum of 8 potty outings a day. Which means potty accidents are rare around here unless one is new to the home or sick.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

Trafalgar Mar 05, 2005 05:47 PM

Sorry, I have to disagree about neutering.

Not only do I believe that neutering doesn't help in housebreaking, I'm convinced that it hinders it significantly, especially if done before sexual maturity.

Personal experience, while only anecdotal I admit, has demonstrated to me that a sexually whole dog is easy for me to housetrain.
(My current 8 year old whole male Yorkie, 4-1/2 pounds, has never gone in the house since he completed his housetraining at 16 weeks or so. Possibly as long as 17 weeks.)
He marks consitently outside but never inside. And his little body is just jammed packed with Testosterone! He is an example of all the male dogs I've owned. I never breed, but don't sterilize unless the welfare of the individual dog calls for it.

Think of it this way: If being unable to reproduce and to be without secondary sex characteristics and gender related hormones was beneficial to survival - wolves (and therefore dogs) wouldn't BE a sexually dichotomous species with behaviour highly influenced by their gender.

I LIKE male dogs to be MALE and female dogs to be FEMALE.

Neutering DOES effect hormone levels certainly. If you're unhappy with a dog being a MALE or a FEMALE, then perhaps you should consider a species where gender differences aren't so obviously manifested naturally. With certain pet birds it is very difficult to know which gender they are.

I'm happy to say I've prevented many people from sterilizing their pets. Sterilization can be a great thing WHEN CALLED FOR - in other words when it's in the best interest of the individual dog for a specific reason which needs to be addressed. An example is this: A 13-1/2 year old Shetland Sheepdog I once owned developed testicular cancer. His testicles were then removed and he lived until 16.

But to sterilize animals as a policy - where it isn't called for by the INDIVIDUAL need of the INDIVIDUAL dog is not, in my opinion a good thiing. Its overly intrusive at best and radically noxious at worst. Doing it with all dogs as a prophylactic measure is what I consider to be malpractice.

I believe that the desire of people to sterilize all dogs approaches zealotry and has gone to such extremes that I'm surprised that people don't claim that it's a panacea for ALL dog related problems....oh wait, some people do!

If people are so against doggy behaviour in the first place, that they hope to mitigate all of it by sterilization, why don't they get a stuffed dog instead of an actual one?

As far as housetraining:
Have patience - #1
Reward positve - #2
Ignore negative - #3
Have patience - #4

Didn't you realize when you purchased a Yorkie that tiny pipsqueaks as they are- they take longer than usual to housebreak? Well now you know! NO big deal! Just a little more work on your part. Think of it as the necessary work for saving all that money on food bills as they eat soooo little.

Yorkies are notorious for disliking cold temps. So if you're in a cold climate now, it might take weeks longer of constant attention.

Try this: Hold your dog for ALL of the time it's in the house, unless it's eating, being bathed/groomed...Have it sleep with you in your arms so you wake if it stirs.
Then when it DOES go to the bathroom outside....lots of praise and let it run around inside for 3 or 4 minutes. Then hold it all for ALL of the time until it goes out again......

Good Luck!
I find the males easier to housebreak than the females, but that could just be my perception.

hreason Mar 06, 2005 06:47 PM

I am not worried about the time/mess/experience of potty training my puppy. I just want to take the best possible route to potty training my puppy so that he doesn't become confused/unhappy. My previous dog was an Akita and he was very fast and easy to potty train because he could spend more time outside. This is my first experience with a tiny dog so I want to do things correctly.

Thank you for your advice. I definitely don't hold my dog all of the time. He is actually quite happy playing on the ground both by himself and with me.

LeahC Mar 07, 2005 01:06 PM

I have to completely disagree with everything that was just posted.

If you hold your dog all of the time you are going to run into separation anxiety problems that are far more difficult to deal with that potty training. You won't be able to leave the house without the dog throwing a fit - shaking, peeing on your carpet, barking incessantly, even biting at you in some extreme cases when he sees you getting ready to leave. Keep him on a leash with you until it's time to go outside maybe, but don't get him used to being help all the time.. You're asking for so many problems by constant holding and you're setting the dog up for some horrible behaviours.. Forget about even going to get groceries in peace with a dependant dog at home.. He needs to be taught independance.

And sterilization is not done so much for behaviour issues as for safety and reducing the pet overpopulation problems. Even the most responsible owners have had pets escape one way or another. While you may never see any results from having your male running around the neighbourhood impregnating any female he wants, you certainly don't want to have your neighbours showing up with a litter of Yorkie mix puppies and blaming you for it. Or worse, the neighbour has no idea who's dog did it and the puppies wnd up at the shelter. And imagine if you have a female that escapes and comes back pregnant. Imagine if you have a yorkie, and the dog that impregnated her was say, a beagle, or even something as large as a husky. I've worked at shelters and pet stores, believe me, it happens. Then you're facing a multitude of problems. Not only do you have a litter of unwanted puppies on the way, but if the father was much larger delivery will probably kill the female. Or you can take her to the vet, they'll determine that the puppies are too large and she'll have to undergo an abortion. Then you're looking at hundreds of dollars in vet bills and the possibility of losing your small dog anyway because of the euthanasia.

My mother's 6lb shih tzu came to the shelter pregnant. The owner had seen that the male who was responsible was a smallish husky mix. They aborted her pregnancy to save her life. The owner was in tears, crying, because she wanted her little dog but just could not afford the abortion her vet told her the dog needed.

Even the most responsible owners may have an escapee every once in a while. Even if the dog doesn't get out, all it takes is to let it outside for a second and have another dog jump the fence into the yard..

Every single pet should be sterilized. And sterilization does not make them less female or less male. Would you say that a female who has had her breast removed because of cancer is less of a woman? That's ridiculous. Sterilization is for the safety of the pet and other pets around you. Period.

hreason Mar 07, 2005 04:15 PM

Don't worry - I have no intention of holding my puppy all of the time. He absolutely loves to play on the ground and outside. Potty training the dog is not worth causing other emotional problems, and I am well aware of that. I couldn't even imagine holding the dog all of the time. Aside from making my dog crazy by holding him, I do have other responsiblities. As for the neutering thing, we will definitely go on the advice of our vet - which I am sure it will be to neuter him. Our previous dogs have been neutered, but they were all outside dogs and we live in the country where dogs tend to roam freely. Our Yorkie situation is different because we cannot let him outside by himself, but if he ever should escape (which would be horrible with all of the wild animals running around here), I do not want him impregnating any other dogs. In addition, I don't want him to have the desire to seek out other dogs because it is so dangerous for him to be out there by himself. I have done a lot of research about Yorkies, and everything I have read says not to hold the dog too much. I won't follow advice that doesn't have other experts backing the information.

KDiamondDavis Mar 07, 2005 09:32 PM

>>Don't worry - I have no intention of holding my puppy all of the time. He absolutely loves to play on the ground and outside. Potty training the dog is not worth causing other emotional problems, and I am well aware of that. I couldn't even imagine holding the dog all of the time. Aside from making my dog crazy by holding him, I do have other responsiblities. As for the neutering thing, we will definitely go on the advice of our vet - which I am sure it will be to neuter him. Our previous dogs have been neutered, but they were all outside dogs and we live in the country where dogs tend to roam freely. Our Yorkie situation is different because we cannot let him outside by himself, but if he ever should escape (which would be horrible with all of the wild animals running around here), I do not want him impregnating any other dogs. In addition, I don't want him to have the desire to seek out other dogs because it is so dangerous for him to be out there by himself. I have done a lot of research about Yorkies, and everything I have read says not to hold the dog too much. I won't follow advice that doesn't have other experts backing the information.
.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sounds like you know what you're doing! Yorkies are notoriously difficult to housetrain, especially the males, but it's not impossible. I think a "playpen" approach tends to help, so that the dog is not isolated from the family (multiple portable exercise pens, or move one around as needed), and yet not running loose in the house with access to out-of-sight spots to turn into bathroom stops.

The way I look at it, a big dog has a bigger idea of territory and would prefer to mark around the edges of that territory, which takes it naturally outside. A tiny dog's sense of territory may be telling him that off in a corner of the living room is far enough. The more you can get him to mark outside, the more he'll think of that as his territory and that will work in your favor. And housetraining becomes a habit. We want to help the dog form that habit so that it just becomes where he automatically does it.

It takes time, and every accident is a setback in getting that habit you desire, so the more diligently you supervise the dog and help him hit your chosen target, the better and faster your chances of success. Removing the testosterone as a factor can save a lot of urine-marking in the house along the way.
-----
Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

Trafalgar Apr 10, 2005 12:10 AM

Hi.
It's now a month later.
How's the housebreaking coming?

Hope you've had luck with your little buddy.

Trafalgar Apr 10, 2005 12:05 AM

Of course neutering makes them less male or less female.
That's the DEFINITION of what neutering IS.

Neutering every pet animal is an abomination and, in my opinion, abuse.

How would you like a radical hysterectomy for NO reason other than someone with power over your life feels ALL women not worthy of breeding should be sterilized?

It's easy to keep whole dogs - without them breeding- without them marking etc....

Some dogs SHOULD be neutered. Those dogs that have a specific problem PROVEN to be solvable by neutering.

By the way - my 4-1/2 lb Yorkie was completely housebroken by 16-17 weeks and has never marked in the house. He was trained by using attention and effort on my families part., not by locking him up constantly. He has NO separation anxiety, no aggression problems, no marking problems, no jumping problems, no barking problems.
He is too tiny for my taste and I'll never have another Yorkie. But being only eight - I'll still get 7-10 more years of loving him.

In fact the following is a list of whole male dogs I've owned:

Sheltie: Whole for most of his life. No problems, castrated at 13.5 because of cancer - lived until 16

Border Collie - Whole, no problems, died uncastrated at 17 - never roamed, never bred, never marked.

German Shepherd (I was a baby when we got him)- Whole, no problems, no breeding, no marking, no biting, no aggression. Died whole at 14

Yorkie (my moms) - Whole - no problems, easily housebroken, died at 15 - testicles intact. He was bred at 3- in gorgeous coat - spectacular conformation. He never marked in the house after being bred. One of his three puppies became a champion and died uncastrated at 16.

Brother's German Shepherd- Whole, huge, no problems with aggression, no problems with housesoiling. Successful sire of multiple seeing eye dogs - never marked in the house after he bred. Died at 13.

Mutt: Whole - never bred, never roamed, never bit, no problems. Died at 16.

Notice a trend?

Long happy life is NOT dependant on sterilization. Many mammals of many species live many years - well - without being sterilized.

If you can't handle a dog with secondary sexual characeristics resulting from NATURALLY OCCURRING HORMONES, then you shouldn't have dogs. You should get a stuffed dog (without testicles if that's your preference).

Site Tools