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My opinion may not be popular with other Dobe owners, but my Dobe agrees. I just can't comprehend why every doberman has their tail and ears done. When I walk my Dobe around town, everyone comments how handsome he is and how wonderful it is that he is all natural. When I see a Dobe with cropped ears, they look very intimidating. I understand that it is the standard, but that doesn't make it right.
Plus, how can they play "get your tail"?
I know many disagree, and I've heard all the supossed justifications, but does anyone agree?

The only American Dobermans I've seen with a tail have been poorly bred rescues - they are very difficult to place. Many people are willing to look beyond un-cropped ears, but a tail is a tough sell here in the states. If I remember correctly, your dog is a rescue? Loving him for who he is is wonderful, and you seem to love the breed which is great. Most likely, any future Dobermans you get will be at least docked. If you don't want a docked dog, then you might want to research other breeds... I pray that the right to keep breeds looking like they were originally bred to look does not go the way of many countries in Europe. Freedom of choice has always been the American way!

I love the traditional look of a cropped and docked well bred Doberman - I still get the chills sometimes when I look at mine - she is just that beautiful to me. I don't care if others like an uncropped or docked Dobe, but I don't want the freedom of choice taken away from me. Unless the option of having an undocked dog were taken away, I would never have a tail again. They can clear a coffee table of items in two wags - I LOVE my girls stubby tail.... and she still plays chase the tail with her stub.

The key here is that I don't want the government telling me that I can't have a cropped or docked dog. IMO, there is plenty of animal cruelty out there that needs attention - the freedom to have a dog with the look it was originally bred to have should not even be a blip on the governments radar!

I agree that it is none of the govenments concern, I am mainly curious if anyone out there agrees with me that a natual Dobe is more beautiful.

>>My opinion may not be popular with other Dobe owners, but my Dobe agrees. I just can't comprehend why every doberman has their tail and ears done. When I walk my Dobe around town, everyone comments how handsome he is and how wonderful it is that he is all natural. When I see a Dobe with cropped ears, they look very intimidating. I understand that it is the standard, but that doesn't make it right.
>>Plus, how can they play "get your tail"?
>>I know many disagree, and I've heard all the supossed justifications, but does anyone agree?
>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dobes are not the right dogs for me, but yes, I like my dogs to have tails. I would NEVER play "get your tail" with a dog, though. Dogs who become obsessed with chasing and biting at their tails often wind up in very tragic situations, including the necessity of amputating the tail. This happens in German Shepherds. Don't play that game with a dog!
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series at www.veterinaryforum.com

I believe that it may be possible for the tail chasing to get out of hand, but I'm not concerned personnaly, it sounds pretty extreme. It is so cute, and he has a blast playing, and after 5 minutes he gets tired of it.

Why I see one every day, as my dobie is all natural. We live in Europe and that's the law. If it's a good law or not - I don't know, they concentrate so much on the dogs and too little on the owners, in my opinion. I personally don't care much if the dog is cropped or not, what matters to me is the character and good looks, with or without tail.

I have to agree with that point.
I don't think cropping or docking has anything to do with their personnality.

The last time I saw one (more than one, actually) was when we were contacted in a rescue capacity to take in 6 of them. Someone had bred a litter and kept all of the puppies who were uncropped and undocked. The "breeder" later became ill and contacted rescue to take the whole litter who were now 4 years old as well as the mother. The dogs were in another province so we didn't get them because of the geographical difficulty, but we did list them and try to find homes for them which was darned near impossible with them being undocked and uncropped. Eventually, they ended up in a shelter and honestly, I don't know what became of the last of them. I do know that some of them found homes. Last I heard, a couple of them were still looking.

The "breeder" certainly made life a lot more difficult for those puppies by not docking them at least. I'm sure his intentions were good as he did keep them all, but life happens and it's the responsibility of the breeder to have a long range vision of what may happen in the future. As I said, in this case, if those puppies had been docked, they would have been much more adoptable in the future.

My sister says there is one that she has seen with both the tail and ears intact. Mine has a docked tail, but her ears aren't done. It's the first time I saw one with ears. I know it's just the way we do it here, but I just don't see the reason to do it. If the dogs were supposed to be tailless and with ears standing up, they would be born that way. Either way though, I would never hold that factor against a dog when considering a dog for adoption.

I agree with you that Dobermans with cropped ears look much more intimidating than those without. Well, mine is the first one I have seen without, and she seems much less intimidating. People who don't really know the breed have been asking twice about what she is, but those who know dogs know what she is right away. I understand that breeders aren't going to give up on the idea of cropping ears and docking tails, but I don't see why pet quality puppies can't be sold without it done, if the owner doesn't care to have it done. My lab would get her whole body swaying with the wagging tail, and it was adorable. My doberman has only a nub of tail to wag, and you can't get the body going with that.

I have found that the activity of a dog's tail is the most obvious way to determine the dog's current mood.

Actually, the "whole body" language of a dog is very important in judging their "mood". The ears of a cropped Doberman are IMO much easier to read than a natural earred Doberman (I've had both cropped and natural), and just because a tail is docked, does not mean it is usless - it is still very expressive. In learning to read dogs, body cues are very important and you have to look beyond just ears and tails.

I know you love your all natural Doberman - but you seem to do so at the expense of the traditional look of a Doberman. Love her for what she is....which is no more or less than others. I hate to see someone play into the hands of the animal extreamists out there whose ultimate goal is to do away with all domestic pets - cropping and docking is only the top line of their agenda... you need to do more research if you are interested in the truth about organizations like PETA. You may innocently think that espousing an anti cropping/docking attitude is not harmful, but you have no idea how wrong you are. Make no mistake that the cropping/docking issue is only the tip of a very large and nasty iceberg.. an iceberg that could wipe out the right to ever own and enjoy ANY pet.

I don't personally care if you want to have all natural Dobermans - there is always some BYB out there that will produce them and many of them end up in shelters needing homes. What you need to do is take a good look at your motivation for pushing your prefrence. The preservation of the breed is in the hands of dedicated people who sweat blood money and tears in their quest to produce a correct, healthy, and mentally sound Doberman Pinscher: it takes a huge commitment to do this properly. People who adopt their first Doberman and then procede to mow down the result of decades of dedication that goes into producing a beautiful example of the breed get my dander up. You may think that spouting your "all natural" prefrence on a Doberman list is no big deal, but it is. Ask most of the Doberman owners in Europe if they would still like the choice between having a cropped and docked Doberman and not and their answer will be for choice. The loss of the choice factor in Europe is something that champions of the breed here are trying to avoid.

I'm sorry if you think I am attacking you.... I am not. I am trying to educate you to the folly of buying the animal rights extreamists propaganda hook line and sinker.

One of the reasons that people buy/adopt purebred breeds is because of the way they expect them to look. I personally don't want a Doberman that looks "less intimidating" - the breed is traditionally a cropped and docked breed. That is its accepted appearance and that's what I expect my dog to look like. I could care less if someone thinks it looks intimidating. That's kind of the point of having a Doberman.

As for pet quality puppies, how is a breeder to know which ones are the pet quality puppies at tail docking time? Tails are docked at 3-5 days when the puppies essentially look like squirrels. I can't tell which one is show quality and pet quality at that time. I have my puppies cropped when they are about 8 weeks old. I *may* have a good idea by then of who is pet quality and who is show quality but I might also still be hedging my bets somewhat.

Why shouldn't a pet quality Doberman look like its breed is supposed to? Any puppies that I produce are thoughtfully planned years in advance and represent my work as a breeder. My vision of the breed. They represent my views and my breeding program. Of course I want them to look like their breed, and part of that look is cropped ears and docked tail. The breed's heritage is that it is a protection dog that was supposed to appear as, and be, a deterrent to thieves. Why would I want it to look less intimidating? That's not the point of the Doberman ...

Amen to that!!! When people tell me that my bitch looks very "intimidating", I tell them that she is supposed to!! If I did not want an intimidating looking breed, then I would get something different.

I love Dobermans because they are smart, alert, powerful, adorable, sensitive, beautiful, playful, energetic creatures!
People will justify cropping and docking all day long because that is the way that Dobermans traditionally are, and yes, that's what Dobe owners expect to see. Just because that's the way it is DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!
The fact is, It's cosmetic surgery! I know a few Pugs that could use a nose jobHow about Botox for a Shar Pei !)
Wanna keep breeding your dog in his later years, try Viagra!

That's why I love living in a free country where people can think what they want. You are free to have your all natural friendly Dobeman - I don't have a problem with that - I'm glad you love your dog. I am free to have my cropped and docked breed quality Doberman Pinchers who have: Correct conformation, health tested parents, true Doberman temperament... which includeds being intimidating looking! They are also friendly & outgoing with kids, neighbor's and anyone who has been Ok'd by me. My 2 year old bitch has her CGC (Canine Good Citizen), and her TDI (Therapy Dog Incorporated) titles, along with her WAC (Working Apptitude Certificate) - which proves she will go after the "bad guy" if she feels I am being threated. She is stable and well trained, and is currently working on getting her CD (Companion Dog) title. My puppy with posts in her ears is looking to be a wonderful breed representative and is already wonderful with children. She will not back down from anything - fearless!

Dobermans are meant to be personal protection dogs, much of that is done with just a "look". The intimidating "look" is part of the breed. If you read the breed standard, the first part states:

"The apperance is that of a dog that is of medium size, with a body that is square. Compactly built, muscular and powerful, for great endurance and speed. Elegant in apperance, of proud carriage, reflecting great nobility and temperament. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient"

I agree with you that they're more beautiful natural.
I especially dislike cropped ears..The edges always upset me.

All the Dobies I see with ears and tails look great to me.

I adopted an adult Dobie a year ago and am delighted that he has natural ears. I had no choice in the tail, it's docked. I agree that a docked tail does less damage around the house, but I prefer a natural look. IMHO cropped ears look mutilated.
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Good for you for adopting a rescue - very cute! I truly don't have a problem with natural ears - I would much rather see them than some of the truly bad crops we see from many Dobermans in rescue.

However, a nice crop is truly IMHO a beautiful sight. I love the cropped ears on my Dobermans. I'd hate to see the right to crop lost and therefore lose the traditional look of the breed.

What bothers me about this whole argument is the absolute pigheadedness of the animal rights people. If they truly want to do away with "cruelty", then they are looking in the wrong direction IMO. Show people who crop and dock do so with qualified vets, and proper aftercare, these dogs are loved and spoiled for life. It is so easy to find "real" cruelty - how about looking to PETA for cruelty.... they seem to think that killing 80% of the animals they take in is A-OK. What a crock! The rescue I do volunteer work for probably saves about 90% or better of the throw away Dobermans we take in, and we don't "kill" the ugly ones either!

I agree that some people take it too far! On the other end of the spectrum was a woman who told me that if cropping were banned she wouldn't have Dobies anymore! I was disturbed to think that that's the only thing she likes about this fantastic breed!!

I'll agree with you on that. I've had a natural earred Doberman before and I loved her to death. I would still have Doberman's if I could not crop, but I would really miss the beauty of a nice crop.

Don't even get me started on tails, I hate being whipped with tails, and it really is a pain when you have small kids who get whipped in the face with a long strong tail (we had a rescued Greyhound and I hated that tail).

Whew! Lots of opinions on this subject. I became familiar with the doberman breed back in 1980 and have been hooked solidly since then. I adopted my first dobe in '84 who was taken from an abusive home. She was seven months old at the time, docked tail, natural ears. I worked for a vet at the time and he said her cartilidge was strong so I chose to crop her ears, which turned out beautifully. She was nearly dead when I got her, but the vet worked with me to pull her through and she was a perfect companion, loving, loyal, and protective when necessary.

My next dobe was about 6 months old when I adopted her, she had a docked tail, but natural ears, and I chose to leave her ears natural. She was also a perfect companion.

Next I chose to buy a pup from a breeder, we had her ears cropped and she was beautiful and loyal and a great companion.

My current dogs are both rescues from two different shelters, one a purebred dobe, the other a dobe/greyhound mix. The Dobe has a docked tail, but uncropped ears, which we have left natural. He was about five years old when we adopted him. The dobe mix has a tail and even though he beats me with it, I'm just happy he wags it, because the whole five years he spent in the no kill shelter, he never wagged it once. He was extremely withdrawn when we adopted him and wanting nothing to do with people. He isn't aggressive, but he pretended no one was there and would look the other way. He has come a long way since we brought him home and has a lot of the doberman personality, the loyalty, the trust, the intelligence and the love I have come to greatly admire about the breed.

My point is it doesn't matter whether they are cropped or not. Yes, I like the look of a nice crop job, but the true desire of having a doberman should be the personality. I love the breed for what's on the inside, not what's on the outside. That's purely cosmetic choice and doesn't affect the dogs personality one bit. I find people are just as intimidated at first look of my uncropped and docked dobe as they were of my cropped and docked dobe. I think just being a dobe makes people leary of them. I also don't think this is necessarily a good thing. People miss out on a great breed, because they can't get past the movies and horror stories. Breed for health, intelligence, confirmation, and safety. Most people don't realize the breed was used WWI (or WWII, I can never remember which one) as a messenger dog and to carry supplies to the troops. The stamina and intelligence of the breed to carry out these tasks is amazing. A dog doesn't have to be aggressive to be protective. They will protect out of love, which can be refined with training. And the cropping/docking issue should be personal choice, without arguing or pushing opinions on others, either way. We don't want to lose our right to these practices, but we want people to make their own choices based on their own opinions. Let's just love the breed for what's on the inside, that's the true essence of a doberman.