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I wanted to ask a question about dog fights. How often do dog fights occur and for what reason? I've read that males usually only fight with males and females usually only ever fight with females. I assume the opposite happens when a female is in heat and she doesn't want to mate with a male dog.
How do you know when your dog approaches another dog or if another dog approaches your dog if they are just friendly playing or whether a fight is about to break out?
I know puppies should be kept away from other dogs in case of disease etc but at the same time I know it's important for her to socialise with other dogs so where do you draw the line?
Sometimes I feel guilty because Echo sees other dogs and she wants to play with them but then I am so scared she might catch something or a fight might break out that I pull her away and walk in a different direction but then I think I'm holding her back from socialising so what should I do?
Thanks for any advice you can give.
Mark

You need to learn the body language of dogs. This can get very complicated depending on the dog. Some of the obvious signs of a possible fight are if the hackles go up. This is when the fur/hair on the dog's back, esp. at the top of the shoulders stands up. Another is the position- or angle- of the wagging tail. When a dog's intent is friendly the tail is low. When a dog is being cautious about another dog then the wagging tail is held up high. It is called "flagging." Most dogs will give "warning" signals to another dog before any disagreements develop. They start with just lifting the lip to display their teeth. Then a low growl will be added. Next comes the non-connecting snap near the other dog's face, usually. These actions all just say, "Go away from me!" Young dogs & pups sometimes do not get it. When that happens, I remove my dog from the situation. There is more body language than that, but you have to learn what it is.
By removing your dog from a situation tat you think might be a problem without letting the dogs close enough to find out for sure will teach the dog that whatever you take them away from is a threat and they must guard themselves- and you- from this situation in the future and makes for both dog aggressive and people aggressive dogs, which is what you don't want. Don't just let your dog run loose with unfamiliar dogs, but do let them meet & greet (dogs sniffing ea. others "private" areas gives them a great deal of info re the other dog and should not be discouraged---imo). When you allow them to meet while on lead then you still can pull them out of a fighting situation, or any other circumstances where you can see the are not comfortable and just leave the area.
My thoughts on the subject!
Nancy

Thanks Nancy, I really appreciate your advice on this.

I will definitely look out for the hackles raising and the tail posture and any mouthing going on.

I'm just worried that I will keep pulling her away from non-threatening situations, because she gets so excited around other dogs, which will then panic her thinking that any contact with dogs is bad.

I guess if she is on the leash then I will always have control before anything gets out of hand.

Thanks again,
Mark

Hey Mark!
Cookie loves other dogs too! Has Echo had all of her shots yet? How old is she again? If my memory serves me correctly, she's about the same age as Cookie, no? I allow Cookie to play with other dogs as long as the other dog wants to play. A lot of the time, older dogs will get frustrated with her cause she is so excitable, but they let her know and we move on. Other puppies usually get along with her just fine. A family across the street has a puppy about the same age and size that she plays with all the time. It's pretty clear if they're fighting or playing. If they're playing, they always come back for more (Unless they just need a break) And will mouth and wrestle with one another, you may hear the occasional grumble, but generally not the nasty snapping and snarling from an angry dog. It looks very rough but keep in mind, puppies and dogs can tollerate the mouthing a lot better than we can. That's just how they play. If your dog is in distress, you'll be able to tell. I've read that if a fight does break out, do everything you can to break it up, without putting yourself in between the dogs. Seperate the dogs immediately, given both dogs are on a leash. If not, clap your hands loudly, throw a tin can on the ground, anything that may startle them enough to stop. Try to scare the other dog away. But be careful, you don't want to wind up with the other dog coming after you. This is all just what I've read, every time I have encountered a dog that obviously doesn't like other dogs, the owner has had it under control (Knock on wood). This is just what I remember reading when looking up info about getting a new puppy.
Hope this helps some.

Hi,
Yes she has had all of her shots. Although over here my Chinese friend had trouble translating to me exactly what shots she has had which does trouble me a bit. I¡¯m currently trying to find a good vet who can speak English.
Her age is also a bit sketchy! The man who I bought her from said she was 4 months old so now she should be about 4 and a half months old. She just seems so big though already and when she gets excited around other dogs she can really pull on the lead.
I know your Cookie was spayed at 8 weeks old and I¡¯m wondering exactly when Echo¡¯s first heat cycle is going to kick in. I think I¡¯ll ask this question under another heading!
The way Echo plays sounds exactly like Cookie! She is so energetic she will run circles around them and jump around and I think in the end they get bored or too tired and just walk off! It¡¯s funny but over here most Chinese people have small dogs and in the small park where I walk her the gardens are raised so it¡¯s like she teases the other dogs by jumping up on the gardens and then looks down on them because she knows they are too small to jump up! Then she will go into a fit of jumping up and down to try and get them to chase her. I really wish I could let her off the lead sometimes because it can get so tangled and sometimes she jumps away in one direction and it really tugs her neck when the lead catches up! Most people here don¡¯t use leads, which is a bit frustrating! Fortunately I haven¡¯t seen any signs of aggression from Echo or any other dogs so far, I just hope it stays like that!
Your tips on breaking up a dog fight were very useful thanks. I hope I never get Echo or myself into that position! I read an article somewhere where it said that if 2 dogs are fighting that you should lift up their hind legs like a wheelbarrow and pull them apart and then that way they can¡¯t get their mouths near you so it protects you from getting bitten! I hope I never have to try that out either!
Thanks again and best wishes to you and Cookie!
Mark

Thats very interesting! The wheelbarrow technique. I'll have to keep that in mind, hopefully I'll never have to try it.
As for the leash getting tangled, there is really nothing you can do. Maybe a harness will help? That way the leash is attached the her back and not near her legs.
About her shots, maybe if you posted a message in the health board, someone will be able to tell you what shots she should have gotten by now. Although, they might be different shots over in China, since there are different animals and they can carry different diseases, I'm not sure. Definitely keep socializing her, if you know anyone with a large breed dog, better yet a large breed puppy, get them together. I know it's difficult, but if you can, you want her to socialize with all different kinds of dogs and people. And I bet she would have a blast playing with another dog her own size!
I would have guessed she was older than 4 1/2 months too, but this is the first time I've seen a Collie puppy so I'm not too sure.

That¡¯s a good idea I¡¯ll do that. It would be handy to have a complete list of compulsory and recommended shots which I can then try and get someone to translate into Chinese. I keep worrying about the parvovirus because no one seems to have heard of it here and I¡¯m worried she might not be protected against it. What other diseases might be common in dogs in China I don¡¯t even know! I really have to do a lot more study on this. Of course in the meantime I will watch her like a hawk and just do my best to keep her from catching anything.

I remember reading a post a couple months ago about someone with a dog with Parvo, but I can't remember which board it was in. I wish I could help more, but medicine and diseases I know nothing about. I remember reading some posts from a woman in Korea who rehabilitated homeless dogs and then found homes for them, but again, I can't remember the board or the girls name. I'll check back on some previous posts, maybe I can find her and the two of you could exchange notes.

sounds like you live in china. here in the usa the annual vaccinations recommended for dogs are called DHLPPC: distemper, hepititis, leptrosperiosis, paranfluenza, parvo, and corona. (not sure on all the spellings or exactly how those diseases react in dogs.) also rabies vacination once they are 4-6 months of age. most vets here give them in a 5 in 1 or 6 in 1. then they also recommend something called bordatella. that is mostly for boarding dogs in a kennel to protect against kennel cough.
vaccines are not 100% proof that your dog will never get one of those diseases. parvo is the biggest thing that kills pups here. its highly contagious.

i work with dogs in a boarding kennel. it's VERY important to get your little doggie socialized now. now is when they need it. take her/him every where to be introduced to everything in life. believe me it will effect them as adults. i have a 4 year old dobie/shep mix and when he was 4-5 months i couldn't socialize him much becasue he was sick and my vet wouldn't give him the necessary vaccinations puppies need so he could be in a puppy class. now he is timid with other dogs. some dogs he likes some he don't.he is better with smaller dogs and cats. if you can get your pup enrolled in a puppy class you will be much more happier in the long run. they can help you recoginize dog agression. its not so much of a problem when they are pups. infact, all the classes i've been to they say to let the pups work it out. that is the only way they know how to socialize with each other. then when they are older adults they will know when to quit so to speak instead of getting into a fight.

of coarce, there are those dogs that will be agressive no matter what. 'dog parks' are a big thing here. they are fenced in areas where you can let you dogs off leash to interact with other dogs. just use caution...some folks don't watch their dogs. sorry so long....just want to post my thoughts on the matter.

Thanks and please don¡¯t apologise for the lengthy message, I really appreciate you taking the time!!

I¡¯ll take the list of vaccinations you listed and get them translated. I¡¯m going to find out what vaccinations are needed in China too as I¡¯m assuming it¡¯s like when we (westerners) go on holidays to foreign countries and we need extra shots too!

I do know a guy who owns a pet shop here and he came with us to see Echo for the second time. He asked the old owner about what she had had and when and he seemed happy with that but him or my friend couldn¡¯t tell me what the English equivalents were which plays on my mind. He¡¯s also helping me to find an English-speaking vet but they appear to be very rare in this city. I guess I¡¯ll just have to put my faith in a good vet and then hear about Echo via translation which will be OK it¡¯s just I¡¯d rather hear it first hand if you know what I mean.

I know I could be criticized for not doing my homework before I got her but originally I wasn¡¯t going to get a puppy until I move apartments in July but then Echo came along and, in my eyes, she was perfect.

I¡¯m really conscious about the whole socialization issue and I¡¯ve had no problems so far. It¡¯s all been playful and she likes to play a lot! I take her out to a small park here where other owners take their dogs so she meets a lot and she gets really excited when she sees the same dogs every day to have another ¡®marathon¡¯ session with! It¡¯s a shame it¡¯s not fenced though as I¡¯d love to be able to let her off the lead and run free to play. There¡¯s also a lot of very busy streets around here too so I¡¯m getting her used to traffic and crowds of people and she seems to be taking it all in her stride.
Anyway once I have a comprehensive list of what¡¯s needed here I¡¯ll post a message with the English and Chinese equivalents just in case there¡¯s anyone else in a similar situation.
Thanks again for your advice and your time.
Best wishes
Mark