Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok I will try to explain this in as little words as possible. We are breeders of chihuahuas. We are very knowlegable in breeding and have been doing it for years. We also come from a long line of family members that breed.

Here is the story. We bred one of our chihuahua dams and took her to the vet on what would have been between 44 and 47 days pregnant(depending on which of the several matings took). At 45 days you can see puppies in an X-ray. We took her for an X-ray, and was told by the vet that he saw no puppies. He then palpitated her and also felt nothing. My wife who took her, then asked did it matter that it might be a day shy of 45 if the last mating was the one that took and the fact the bones might not have calcified yet. He said no, she was definetly not pregnant. He said she was going through a false pregnancy.

We have had false pregnancy's happen before, and this was really no big deal. So our dam went along and developed milk and got bigger. All would be common in false pregnancys. Early this morning the dam began to whimper in distress. False labor can also happen during false pregnancy's so we didn't think to much of it either, but my wife decided to bring the dam to a family member's house who is also a breeder to watch over her all day (since we did not think she was pregnant we did not schedule to be off work as we would normally do if a dog was pregnant) and to call my wife just in case something was wrong. It is a good thing she did because not soon after she left the dam started to try to push something out. My wife returned to the house immediately and talked to vet. At time my wife could not determine if it was her water, a sac, or possibly even some part of her internal organs coming out of her. Being that we thought she was not pregnant, she was concerned and called the vet. The vet said that wasn't normal and to bring her in.

We brought her in and they said they felt something but it might not be a puppy. So they did an X-ray and sure enough there was a supposedly a "huge" puppy. They believed it would be too big to deliver on her on. So we said ok to a c-section.

My issue now is the misdiagnosis that could have put our dam in jeapordy of losing her life since we were not watching her as closely as we would have a pregnant dam. We would leave hours on in. If she had went into labor while we were gone she would have died all because the vet said she was not pregnant. We also put the dam into much more stress than was needed because we would have not had to have her go into labor at all but just schedule a c-section. We both ended up having to take off work unscheduled also.

Oh yeah and the puppy, was in the middle range of the size of puppies she has had just fine in the past. I have a thought that they jumped the gun on the c-section without giving the dam enough time to try to have it on her on.

Needless to say I am very upset and about the negligent and bad vet. I am meeting with the owner of the vet clinic tomorrow to discuss the bills because I refused to pay anything but the deposit neccessary to get the operation started because of the gross malpractice and negligence of the vet. I believe that there should be some resolution in a monetary way for the problem. I have no problem paying for the c-section, but I believe the money I paid for the doctor's visit and first x-ray should be put towards this new bill, and the fact of the total blunder they did should also be taken into account when they give me a final bill.

Thank God the dog did not die, or they would have had to have worried about a malpractice suit also.

Sorry I was so long winded what do you all think?

I think thats the risk you take with breeding. If you are not prepared to miss work and spend money on vet bills then don't do it. This happened with my friends papillon and I've heard of it happeneing to other dogs too. Its often when there is only one pup because it moves so they can not fel or see it.I've always heard vets say the x ray may not show it. It probally wasn't good for him to say there is absolutely no way she is pregnant but I think you should pay your bills. Is he the same vet you have been using for years? If you are not comfortable with him then find another but just realize it could happen again. Maybe you should insist on another x ray a couple days later if nothing shows up.
-----

It is not an issue of paying the bill. The dog needed a c-section. I am just a little irritated about the fact that the vet said there was no way she was pregnant. We have been breeding for years. We are very knowledgable in breeding and come from a long line of familiy members that have done it for generations. We have the money to pay the bill, and have already paid it. My only issue was the useless x-ray and doctor visit, and the vet saying there was absolutely no chance she was pregnant. I have seen the x-ray myself. There was definetly nothing showing up. I would think the prudent thing to do especially when the dam was showing signs of pregnancy would be to either A) give a pregnancy test to make absolutely sure or B) had us come in a few days or so later to have another x-ray. He didn't do either of these things. He assured us she wasn't pregnant.

We always take off work and give our pregnant dams our undivided attention along with putting money aside just in case there is a medical emergency. In this particular case we believed the dam was not pregnant and did not keep an eye on her as we would have usually.

The vet clinic is owned by a vet that is well known and liked by my family and friends. He was not the vet that did the palpitation and x-ray though. I believe if we do continue to go there we will most likely not see any other vet anymore except for the owner unless there is some type of emergency.

Good plan. I only go to one of the two vets at our office. The other one just kinda rubs me the wrong way.
-----

>> At 45 days you can see puppies in an X-ray.

I've been mulling this over, and this is what I think.

45 days is actually the earliest you can see skeletons on an xray, so it's a bit iffy even at best. However, you can't really be sure this was 45 days, because gestation is not timed from the date of BREEDING, but the date of OVULATION, and you have a ten day window there in which a bitch can get pregnant, five days on each side of the day of ovulation. So basically, you might have been at day 39 or 40, not day 45 at all.

Now, a lot of breeders don't know this, and while they should, a lot of vets don't know it either. The minute you referred to your breeding dates as if they could tell you how far along she'd be in her pregnancy, this vet should have corrected you and pointed out that you cannot know this. Some bitches will let themselves be bred well before they ovulate, and bitches ovulate a all different points in their cycle, so there really is no way other than using progesterone testing to tell you when she ovulated. Your vet should have told you this, in fact, all your vets for the last several litters should have told you this.

As breeders, we really should be given the most up to date information and the best chance to plan our breedings and whelpings. You were cheated of this because it seems that this vet has failed not just now but in the past to let you know this simple fact and make progesterone testing available to you so you would KNOW, to the day, when your bitch ovulated, and thus EXACTLY how old the fetuses would be and EXACTLY when she'd be due to deliver. So yeah, I really do fault your vet. If he is willing to take your money to do repro work, he should keep himself informed on the canine repro field. To me it's that simple.

However, although harm was done in the sense that you are angry and I don't blame you, no ACTUAL harm was done financially. You didn't pay for anything other than what you'd have paid for anyway, an x-ray and an exam, and then a section. I feel that it would be good business on the part of the practice owner to waive some part of the overall costs for you, perhaps the xray, as a gesture and apology, but you don't REALLY have damages, if you see what I mean. I suspect you'll get the most "juice" from a sit-down with the practice owner.

I'd also try to find a better repro vet, who can keep up with the latest developments and help breeders make better decisions by giving us the information we need to make them.

How is your singleton pup doing?
-----
Christie Keith
Caber Feidh Scottish Deerhounds
Holistic Husbandry since 1986
www.caberfeidh.com/
Dogged Blog