Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, I've been wracking my brain for months now trying numerous methods on retraining my dog's "sit" with no luck.

Background- I got my dog Taiko 1.5 years ago when he was a year old. He was a conformation dog that was never taught to sit- in fact, he was so "programed" not to put his rear on the ground that he'd chew bones in a bowing position. It took me 8 weeks to finally convince him to do this 'simple' command- I'm not a jerk your dog by the collar and shove his butt on the ground type of trainer. Quickest way to shut a shiba inu down in the world is to become heavy handed with them. Trust me, used it on my older dog and ruined her reliability to follow commands completely- especially under stress.

So, now we've started ACK rally trials. We've done fairly well if I go into the trial hoping for nothing more than a qualifying score. We've even gotten first and second place scores with that mentality. Yet, our titling legs I tend to get stressed and my dog shuts down. He then does his "default stand" from his conformation days and refuses to sit.

Recently I started another obedience class to polish his perfornamce up, but A) he either doesn't do this behavior because I'm not stresses out or B) if we do too many stationary excercises in a row (14 ), it rears it's ugly head again. My instructor wants me to put him back on leash put a prong collar on him and collar correct him for each refusal to sit (she thinks it's a disobedience issue due to his breed). I'm not going to completely rule disobedience out, but quite honestly, my other dog is disobedient, Taiko seems bored with repetition. When I try to make it more upbeat in class, the instructor says I'm just making it worse.

Now, I've basically already decided to not go back to class because well, now that I'm disagreeing with the instructor's method, she's picking on us and I am stressing out in class and the "default stand" is getting worse. So, theoretically yes, that would be the best time to work on the problem because I can't simulate this at home nor in pet stores. Yet, I really don't wish to go back if I can help it.

Now, ok, I need to mellow out at trials, that I'm already working on, but how to I mellow out my dog and turn a "default stand" into a more reliable sit under stress? Thank you for any suggestions you can offer.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

Hi Chelle

I taught Sophie a variety of commands that you will never see in the obedience ring, but they help with "taking the edge off" and with rear-end awareness. I taught her to spin in the left and right direction. I do this as a break between heeling or other strict obedience exercises, because it is fun for her and gets her "up." She spins and jumps and has a good time. Another I taught her to do is back up. A couple of spins just before a trial might help him relax.

Have you done any doggy pushups? A series of sit, stand, down commands that are positive and fast paced. I do this randomly throughout the day to reinforce these 'simple' commands. Keep it fun, say commands in a high pitched voice, etc. Do only a few 'pushups' at a time and then end it on a big positive note with a "yaaaay!!" and a happy little dance to make Taiko think he is hot stuff.
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Lesya & Sophie

A Dog Owner's Prayer

Author unknown
Thanks to Pattie Lawler
http://www.behaviour-problems.freeserve.co.uk/2/Poems/dogownerpray.htm

Not a bad idea at all! Thanks! Looking back on it I guess I've been focusing on attention so much before we enter the ring and getting him to sit that I've been completely demotivating him and doing the exact opposite of what I want- for both of us to have fun. I like the "doggy push ups" idea. He already knows "spin" from agility. I guess I hadn't even though to use it in this instance.

OK- I need to chill out and have fun and stop stressing over this one training issue. It's not like he doesn't know how to sit. LOL! Oh my poor dog is so handler challenged.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

>>OK, I've been wracking my brain for months now trying numerous methods on retraining my dog's "sit" with no luck.
>>
>>Background- I got my dog Taiko 1.5 years ago when he was a year old. He was a conformation dog that was never taught to sit- in fact, he was so "programed" not to put his rear on the ground that he'd chew bones in a bowing position. It took me 8 weeks to finally convince him to do this 'simple' command- I'm not a jerk your dog by the collar and shove his butt on the ground type of trainer. Quickest way to shut a shiba inu down in the world is to become heavy handed with them. Trust me, used it on my older dog and ruined her reliability to follow commands completely- especially under stress.
>>
>>So, now we've started ACK rally trials. We've done fairly well if I go into the trial hoping for nothing more than a qualifying score. We've even gotten first and second place scores with that mentality. Yet, our titling legs I tend to get stressed and my dog shuts down. He then does his "default stand" from his conformation days and refuses to sit.
>>
>>Recently I started another obedience class to polish his perfornamce up, but A) he either doesn't do this behavior because I'm not stresses out or B) if we do too many stationary excercises in a row (14 ), it rears it's ugly head again. My instructor wants me to put him back on leash put a prong collar on him and collar correct him for each refusal to sit (she thinks it's a disobedience issue due to his breed). I'm not going to completely rule disobedience out, but quite honestly, my other dog is disobedient, Taiko seems bored with repetition. When I try to make it more upbeat in class, the instructor says I'm just making it worse.
>>
>>Now, I've basically already decided to not go back to class because well, now that I'm disagreeing with the instructor's method, she's picking on us and I am stressing out in class and the "default stand" is getting worse. So, theoretically yes, that would be the best time to work on the problem because I can't simulate this at home nor in pet stores. Yet, I really don't wish to go back if I can help it.
>>
>>Now, ok, I need to mellow out at trials, that I'm already working on, but how to I mellow out my dog and turn a "default stand" into a more reliable sit under stress? Thank you for any suggestions you can offer.
>>-----
>>Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles
>>

>>>>>>>>>

You could get what you are wanting on this behavior with good clicker work, even if you don't use a clicker for training anything else. Myself, I'd do it with voice instead of clicker, but either way, timed rewards and increasing the criteria for that perfect, happy sit. Your trainer sounds like a real downer. Bet that outfit doesn't produce many high titles.
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47

You know, I started with the clicker. Probably a good idea to go back to it. My verbal cues aren't nearly as precise and I haven't been raising the criteria enough.

As for the trainer- if anyone can help me find a school that does competition level obedience without all the junk that goes along with it, let me know. I know there are people out there that want High In Trial and OTCH, but I'm just there to have fun. Trialing keeps me motivated to continue training my dogs. Without a goal, I tend to slack off and I truely love working with my dogs. And you are correct- this school doesn't produce the HIT dogs. I just thought a rally class would be different. My mistake. In constrast- the school we take agility at had 3 instructors in Spain at Nationals last week AND they are wonderful to work with. They train to the individual dog and handler team and not just those looking for MACH.
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Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles

>>You know, I started with the clicker. Probably a good idea to go back to it. My verbal cues aren't nearly as precise and I haven't been raising the criteria enough.
>>
>>As for the trainer- if anyone can help me find a school that does competition level obedience without all the junk that goes along with it, let me know. I know there are people out there that want High In Trial and OTCH, but I'm just there to have fun. Trialing keeps me motivated to continue training my dogs. Without a goal, I tend to slack off and I truely love working with my dogs. And you are correct- this school doesn't produce the HIT dogs. I just thought a rally class would be different. My mistake. In constrast- the school we take agility at had 3 instructors in Spain at Nationals last week AND they are wonderful to work with. They train to the individual dog and handler team and not just those looking for MACH.
>>-----
>>Chelle and the rest of the crew including, but not limited to Kita and Taiko (the shiba inu wrestle maniacs), Adi (reserved and dignified tabby cat), and all 28 reptiles
>>

>>>>>>>>>>

Ask at your agility school about a place to go for obedience. Betcha they'll know!

And on using voice instead of clicker device, it works fine--it's been scientifically tested. The information that there is something special about how that click sound affects the brain (the amygdala, I believe they were saying) is now outdated. "Good Girl!" works just as well.

I like well-taught use of the voice in training because it is acting on the human--using an up voice makes you discipline yourself to be more up!--and also because it helps you train your voice as the most effective tool you can make it for dog training. I believe that the very best trainers have superlative vocal and body timing and communication with their dogs.

The best of the best never put a foot wrong, and even every eye movement is exactly right! I have what is now rather severe rheumatoid arthritis that puts limitations on physical movements, but happily have a breed that readily learns to look at me and listen to me and has a genuine desire to please me. So it's not surprising that I highly value use of the voice in dog training, and am horrified to see people being told not to use it!
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Kathy Diamond Davis, author, "Therapy Dogs: Training Your Dog to Reach Others," 2nd edition, and the free Canine Behavior Series articles at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&S=1&SourceID=47