Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
Click here for Dragon Serpents

need help finding a stud for my Yorkie.

doggysit Jan 27, 2006 10:27 AM

I am new to the area and recently was given a Female Yorkshire puppy although she is a puppy now I want to start doing my homework.

I want to know when is the best time to start breeding this breed? How can I find a stud that is located close to where I live? How do I ensure that the stud is AKC? What is the average litter size for this breed?
The main question is how do I find a stud and when do I start?
A friend told me that a lot of times the stud owners will only charge you if you have a litter, or they want first pick of the litter. Is this true? How does this work.

I appreciate any help you can offer.

Replies (8)

Yorkiebrdr Feb 03, 2006 05:00 PM

Posted by: doggysit at Fri Jan 27 10:27:46 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

I am new to the area and recently was given a Female Yorkshire puppy although she is a puppy now I want to start doing my homework.

I want to know when is the best time to start breeding this breed? How can I find a stud that is located close to where I live? How do I ensure that the stud is AKC? What is the average litter size for this breed?
The main question is how do I find a stud and when do I start?
A friend told me that a lot of times the stud owners will only charge you if you have a litter, or they want first pick of the litter. Is this true? How does this work.

I appreciate any help you can offer.

First of all, let me ask you this...

Why do you want to do this? Is it for the money? Because friends and family want one?

How Big will this dog be when she's grown? 3 pounds, 4 pounds, 12 pounds? Yorkie DO come in all kinds of size differences.

What are the bloodlines of this dog? And how will those blood lines be compatible with some other bloodline out there?

Is there any history of ANY kind of genetic problems in the background of this dog? Any liver shunt, legge perthes, collapsing trachea, heart problems, canine intestinal lymphangesia (Sp?)?

Same above goes for any siblings. Any of them ever have any of these problems?

Who told you the dog was of a good enough quality to breed? Have you shown her or are you Planning to show her?

What registry is the dog registered with?

If the dog is still a puppy how do you know that SHE doesn't have any kind of genetic problems like liver shunt, legge perthes, collapsing trachea, heart problems, canine intestinal lymphangesia (Sp?)?

Do you know what constitutes an emergency during whelping a toy dog? Do you have someone near by who Does?

Do you have money enough in the bank to cover the costs of a c-section?

Are you going to be willing risk the life of this precious little one to have puppies? What happens if the worst should happen and she dies? Are you going to be able to bottle feed or worse yet tube feed (putting a tube down into the pups stomach) puppies?

These are questions you need to ask yourself BEFORE you start doing anything else. This is not something to be jumped into just because someone has a cute little dog. There are a lot of things to consider.
-----
Joan
Responsible Breeders spay/neuter Pet puppies.
Statistically, the average breeder remains in a breed for five years. The mark you leave on that breed, good or bad, is entirely up to YOU!

doggysit Mar 02, 2006 09:44 AM

Please see the posting from the other user who gave honest advice on how to LEARN about breeding and what I should concentrate on.

I feel that no one should have their head ripped off for asking a question.

Yorkiebrdr Mar 03, 2006 04:27 PM

Gee, I'm REALLY sorry that you feel you were being Picked on. I only usually run across that with people who have already made up their minds that they're going to do this because its the "God Given Right".

I would hope that you would READ those questions and answer them.

I would also like to add that you stated that you were "GIVEN" this dog by a third party, which implies to me that you have no idea what is behind her.

If you want to breed, be my guest... but I would suggest that you learn everything you need to, and find a GOOD mentor, someone willing to teach you the things you can't pick up in a book. Unless, of course, you intend to become like a lot of so called breeders I know who can let dogs and puppies die due to lack of vet care or whatever and then get up and look themselves in the mirror the next morning like nothing has happened.

Do I sound a tad "Jaded" as a breeder, you bet you sweet behind. And why? Because I'm really tired of cleaning up after people who wanted "just one litter for friends and family" or who wanted "another one just like the mom", or who were "Given" a dog that was AKC (after all we ALL know about the quality of AKC dogs right?).

Come and talk to me again about attitudes when YOU'VE had to put down a rescue that you just poured $1,800.00 worth of Chemo in to trying to save his YOUNG life. Or one that comes to you with teeth so bad that it takes $500.00 worth of dental surgery just to get his mouth in shape so that MAYBE he can live a bit longer with the heart condition he got from bad teeth. Come and talk to me AFTER you've put all this money out of YOUR OWN POCKET, with not so much as a dime back from the local rescue groups.

I get REALLY tired of being accused of being rude, or "Mean" or however you want to put it, because I tell the TRUTH.

Again, I'm really sorry if I've offended anyone's sensibilities with the Truth.
-----
Joan
Responsible Breeders spay/neuter Pet puppies.
Statistically, the average breeder remains in a breed for five years. The mark you leave on that breed, good or bad, is entirely up to YOU!

Trafalgar Mar 04, 2006 09:12 PM

You're probably aware that the "TRUTH", especially as it relates to dog breeding is relative. Not only is it relative but -as a faceless nickname on a message board- you're not automatically assumed to be the person who has the last word on it. Therefore, what you say, and the context in which you say it - are all that exist to be evaluated.

That being said; I would ask you to consider what your goal was in your original response to the posted question.
Because what you posted in response would NOT lead anyone to believe that you wanted to share expertise with an admitted neophyte, who asked for help.

Maybe your motive was to vent anger at spending money on dogs that you feel others should have spent. In that case you did a great job and should be satisfied.

But I don't have knowledge of your inner thoughts & ntentions, so in the event that you wanted to educate, may I offer this observation? As a general rule people don't learn when they feel attacked, ridiculed or patronized. Don't you agree? What good does it do for you to speak what you feel is THE TRUTH, if it only echos in the hallways of your own mind?

The United States of America legally views dogs as property. Dogs are not, under law, beings with rights to top notch health care. (I suppose it's better than being a chicken, the only health care THEY can expect is being killed for food). If you choose to designate greater value to the sentient souls of canines (as I do) realize that others are NOT OBLIGATED UNDER LAW OR CUSTOM to agree and feel that all you do for the sake of each dog is what they would have to do under similar circumstances.

But your actions in these circumstances if viewed in the context of kindness CAN lead by example. But probably ALL THE GOOD YOU DO by spendind your money (that you alluded to more than once) is NEGATED if you- by being abrupt - turn off the very people you could have influenced in a good way.

Let's say your goal was to express that you feel part of breeding is a financial committment to expensive health care when confronted with unhealthy dogs. Do you think you succeeded in convincing the person who asked the question about a stud to agree with you?

Personally, I don't believe ANYONE starts off in dogs feeling that they have to spend thousands of dollars on sick dogs. in an attempt to cure them. That is something that evolves over time in some people.

Also, there is the socio/equality notion that the worst part of dog sport is the residually expressed notion that dog breeding is best left to "top drawer" people, people who can afford to toss money away on an expensive hobby and the regular hoi poloi (common folk) should be satisfied with allowing the higher class people to sell them pets. Some people argue that people matter as much as dogs and people who would enjoy breeding shouldn't be obligated to have so much extra money that thousands upon thousands can be spent on cancer treatment for dogs.

Personally, I've never bred Yorkies (or any breed) although I've owned, trained, rescued, showed many dogs. What keeps me from doing it is the fact that I can't stand the thought of selling dogs like little slaves, cash for life ownership. It makes my stomach feel funny. BUT I understand that most people feel differently & I don't accuse people who disaggree of being greedy monsters.

Finally, some might argue that as breeders what is best for the breed is what counts and it is NOT best for the breed to expend extensive effort in keeping sick dogs alive. They might feel that making sure that delicate or sickly dogs exit the gene pool is more important. Personally I believe genetic diversity in a gene pool is the single most important factor in the health of the breed. But expressing anger & disgust towards people who differ in opinion, doesn't convince them to change.

IDEAS and their validity should sway people to beliefs, not condemnation.

doggysit Mar 06, 2006 09:08 AM

Thank you very much for your advice Shboom. Also I would like to thank Trafalgar for taking the time to express their thoughts and ideas to help Yorkiebrdr.

Yorkiebrdr:

First of all I do not feel “picked on” by you. I feel you have a personal problem and a lot of bitter feeling and anger build up inside of you. Between both of your postings you did not offer one piece of positive reinforcement, direction or helpful advice. Instead you slash out and throw scenario that don’t answer the question in the first place. Well here’s a news flash I did not nor did anyone on this board do anything to hurt you, disrespect, or offend you. We are NOT to blame or responsible for the hardship that YOU went through while breeding. That was and is your choice. Now I would like to offer some advice to you: see a physiologist to deal with your anger inside or don’t reply to post if you don’t have anything positive to offer.

If you chose to reply to this message I will not take the time to read your response.

I wish you the best and hope you find a way to deal with you anger.

God Bless

Shboom Mar 05, 2006 04:10 PM

Quite to the contrary I find nothing wrong with the first reply given to your original questions. As I read the post I didn't feel anyone was getting their head ripped off... rather some very helpful information was being passed on from someone obviously qualified to give that information. Before asking questions about breeding an unknown dog if it were me I would want some answers to most of those questions or at least be asking if anyone knew of someone to act as a qualified mentor in the area that I live.
-----

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

Trafalgar Mar 01, 2006 06:22 PM

As you've seen from your previous response, most likely your question will elicit VERY NEGATIVE responses (especially from the very people who do exactly what you'd like to do - breed).

You see, breeding is such a complex thing because it's more than simply having a litter of puppies.
What breeding is mostly - is a group of people taking an existing population of dogs and by ACTING TOGETHER they move the average of all dogs within that group in a certain direction.

Does that make sense to you?

So the very first thing you should probably do if you want to have a litter of pups is to think about what you would do to change the whole breed if you could do it single-handedly. Then try to find like minded people who have the same basic concept and desire at heart. Unfortunately with Yorkies the "groups" of people, working together are very few although there are many many people breeding.

Conformation show people (the ones you see at dog shows gaiting dogs around a ring) are one group who basically fit this description.

Unfortunately, instead of welcoming others who want to breed into the fold they are usually AGGRESSIVE and MEAN to people who express any interest in breeding. The reasons why don't matter. But, the way you posed your question, GUARANTEES that show people will be very mean to you. It would be best to avoid any show breeders until you know the things you have to say to make them think you're one of the "in" crowd (the only people to whom they show respect).

Usually, show folks have the dogs that most people think are the best dogs. So, that's a problem for someone like you when looking for an appropriate stud. But it isn't an unsurmountable obstacle.

My suggestions would be as follows.
Post questions like yours and ask people if they would like to be part of a private email ring., You could start a group of friends who want to start breeding Yorkies and do it outside of the "show circle" . Do not email back and forth with anyone like me, who is posting opinions, but rather only email with people who want to be part of a group breeding program.

Next: read, read, read about Yorkies, about Yorkie breeding etc....and talk, talk, talk with these people about what you would like to be your contribution to the breed as a whole.
Read about dogs in general. Read about dog training. Read about the latest philosophies in diet and nutrition for dogs. Read about basic genetics (this is usually very interesting and doesn't have to be boring).

Remember, your litters won't exist in a vacuum! They will be part of the Yorkie population as a whole! SO, HAVE A PURPOSE.

Example: Perhaps you feel that there is too much variation all around within the breed and you would hope to eliminate some of that wide variation by breeding for the golden middle. Perhaps you feel that while HAIR is the first thing most people think of when they think Yorkie - you rarely see pet Yorkies with gorgeous floor length coats. Maybe you'd like to pursue breeding dogs capable of growing coat without extensive coat protection like wrapping. Some Yorkies can grow coat without wrapping. Most can't. Maybe you'd like to be part of a group that makes a dent in that situation.

You see what I'm getting at.
Develop a broader goal than just having puppies.
Even if that goal is just making sure your puppies look like Yorkies should look and have fewer health problems than Yorkies as a whole have. (There is a LONG list of problems associated with the breed.)

Also, find out what mistakes people have been making and try to avoid them. For instance for many years most breeders praticed inbreeding that they liked to call by a different name. That name is linebreeding. Within the last ten years there has been a radical change among the enlightened and whole groups of informed breeders are trying to avoid linebreeding in an attempt to keep the COI (coefficiency of inbreeding) very low in order to avoid the pitfalls in health that high COI translates to. (This is a complicated subject.)

Breeding dogs can be the most fascinating hobby on earth. But one must understand that it is a group effort - not an individual sport.

doggysit Mar 02, 2006 09:39 AM

I cannot thank you enough for your advice and sense of direction on how I can go about learning and growing with this. I really appreciate your positive, honest, advice. I was really getting discouraged with the other people who were posting their reply as you can see all of them were negative and they were on the defense.

You see they probably don’t remember that at one point in the beginning stages before they starting breeding they had to “learn” they needed a starting point

I feel that no one should have their head ripped off for asking a question.

Thanks again and I am going to take your advice!!!
God Bless

Site Tools